Twitter thread from Joani Walsh re Trans hospital guidance

[PlayYouLikeAShark]

https://threadreaders.com/thread/1203351253318852609

They've apologised, withdrawn the guidance but still won't do anything to tackle the need for female only HCP when they're prevented from doing this due to the right to privacy a GRC grants to a TW. Women's right to privacy & informed consent seems to be an inconvenience.

It’s going to take legal action isn’t it? I mean, their guidance is against the Equalities Act. What are they getting away with it!

*Why

We want to be able to mandate clinicians of the same SEX.

I don't actually care on a personal level but I'm a gobshite with no fucks left to give about being a pain in the arse and I shall be requiring, in writing like Clare, a same sex clinician for all intimate procedures going forward.

As Lang says, we should all do this. And maybe include with our letters a copy of this article to show that BSUH had to apologise to Clare, even if it was the most mealy mouthed, Stonewall pandering, insincere words they could muster up.

Am I reading a different thread? I don't think they have apologised or withdrawn the guidance.

We are very sorry for any offence or upset caused by the inclusion of these letters in our equality and diversity guidance and have now removed them.

They have apologised for causing offence and removed a specific letter, not agreed that they were wrong. (the classic 'sorry you were offended' non apology)

However, it is not possible to guarantee to any patient that they will only be treated by a clinician assigned to a specific gender at birth

Why is a hospital trust assigning genders to anyone?

We recognise our employees by the gender they identify as on a daily basis as it is essential that we respect the gender identity of all our staff

What is a gender identity?

Additionally, we have a duty to apply the same principles here as we would if a patient requested clinicians from particular backgrounds/ethnicities or any of the nine characteristics protected by law.

No - there are specific exemptions for sex.

No - there are specific exemptions for sex

I'm shocked by how little many of these Trusts understand Equality law and policy. As pointed out on other threads, many appear to think an Equality Impact Assessment only needs to be done for the specific protected characteristic covered by the policy. Or only consider whether trans people are affected on the grounds of age, race, etc, Failing to consider and mitigate its effects on the other protected characteristics is a breach of their Public Sector Equality Duty.

There might be a better example, but this is a note in the EA that talks about transsexuals being excluded from a counselling session for rape victims:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7/5/3

"A group counselling session is provided for female victims of sexual assault. The organisers do not allow transsexual people to attend as they judge that the clients who attend the group session are unlikely to do so if a male-to-female transsexual person was also there. This would be lawful."

It seems pretty clear that in some cases a general exclusion can be a proportionate means to achieving a legitimate aim.

However, the response from the trust seems far more concerned about affirming gender identity (regardless of whether an individual has gone through the process of obtaining a GRC) than women traumatised by rape or cancer screening.

It's shocking that healthcare staff who are going to be regularly working with people who have been traumatised appear to have absolutely no knowledge at all about the impact of trauma. In addition to having no knowledge of the Equality Act.

I see that the usual lot are calling her transphobic. There's some real nastiness on that thread but glad they're being so open about it. The more people who see it the better, sunlight and all.
mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1203476252268662784

A more directly relevant example is in section 789:

'A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress.'

I'm not on twitter , if I was I'd post that section of the EA.

My local NHS (Bristol/North Somerset/South Gloucestershire) is about to adopt similar guidance.

There is NOT ONE mention of the reasons women need single sex wards - nothing about trauma. Any opposition to mixed-sex provision is framed as 'transphobia' and/or 'lack of education'. They have skipped straight over the risk assessment and equalities impact assessment requirements.

Guidance: bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

FOIs: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/guidance_on_supporting_trans_peo#incoming-1474290

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/further_information_on_sari_supp#incoming-1481217

anotherFOIrequester
That guidance is . The bit where they say GNC people may also like to be called cross dressers..
The more I see this, the more obvious it is about reinforcing gender roles and boxes. The only difference now is that there are more boxes and stronger penalties and disapproval for those who object to being put in a box.

Mermaid woman really has no sympathy for people who have been abused does she? Nope, feelings over facts.

I know JustTurtles, it's totally bonkers...

Question is how to stop them adopting it? Anyone got any advice? I wrote to them and got this:

''Our customer service team kindly forwarded your email. Although I was not in attendance at the Governing Body Meeting, the document has been shared with me, this document is still in draft and the CCG is awaiting a revised version from the authors. I will of course share your concerns with colleagues. And request that we take into consideration the views of the CCG LGBT+ staff network who play a vital role in informing the organisation.

Thank you again for your email and I will share your concerns today and offer some feedback at the earliest opportunity.''

That was a week ago...

anotherfoirequester I would go back to the trust with more questions:

We assign a sex to that child based on the appearance of their genitals. Much follows from that, including our expectations of the child's future behaviour and life.

Why are they accepting that there should be any expectations?

However, anatomy is not always a good guide to what gender a child will be, or even what sex they are

They seem to be confusing being trans and having a disorder of sexual development. Why is anybody assuming a gender? What is a gender?

They also seem to be implying that people are regularly observed to be the wrong sex because of their genitals, which would only happen in a very few instances where somebody has a specific disorder of sexual development. This is why we don't rush girls to A&E when they have their first period.

When western science first considered sex and gender it was assumed that there were only two types of humans: men who were masculine and attracted to women ; and women who were feminine and attracted to men

This seems to be a misreading of history. The concept of 'gender' is recent and is a cultural, not medical concept. If the hospital trust thinks that humans can reproduce using a third gamete, or that there a humans who produce both gametes, please could they explain.

We understand that some people are born intersex

What do they understand by the term 'intersex'? Do they realise that many conditions included by 'Fausto-Sterling' as 'intersex' would not lead to any doubt about an individual's sex. For the few people whose sex is genuinely unclear, why is it more helpful to have gender expectations? Why is it not better to simply value individual humans?

We say that these people have a gender identity that is different to that they were assigned at birth

Why is anybody assigning an identity to a baby???

It's all just unsupported gibberish straight out of the Big Book of TRA Talking Points.

All the is going to result in a lot of women avoiding screening and treatment until it is too late.

All the is going to result in a lot of women avoiding screening and treatment until it is too late.

I've worked on teams that sit there discussing for govt, how to get vulnerable and hard to reach women to access health care, to access public services, to be able to leave their homes, to have more equality in society.... huge amounts of time and money has been invested in this.

This crap throws it all into reverse. In a few years there'll be meetings going 'there's a huge drop in women taking up these options - where have all the women only swims gone? Why has the rate of deaths for cervical/breast cancer shot up? Why are the stats showing exclusion for these groups? '

Because you prioritises the whining of a small percentage of males to have everything for themselves, all the time, at the expense of females those males did not give one fuck about. I have no respect for males who do this, absolutely none. It's profoundly selfish.

The likening asking for a same sex HCP to asking for a specific race or sexuality is just utter bullshit. Its nothing alike and there are specific exemptions in law for single sex stuff. As the fucking NHS should know. Mimmymum is, the usual. Those on there whining about 'they want a cis woman, thats wrong and twaw'..surely they could personally accept a TW but have no say in anyone elses choices for intimate exams!

NHS needs to recognise sex as a real thing ,else there are going to be serious problems..gender is irrelevant in a medical setting.

I'd rather have a male who identifies as a man do my exam than a male who identifies as a woman.

I'd be very, VERY concerned after seeing the fetishistic content about female reproduction that many trans people are observably into. I have personally witnessed this type of man give up everything important to them, including their ethics, to worship a fetish.

You can call that transphobia if you want, but it holds no more water than "kinkphobia." I am DEFINITELY afraid of the segment of the trans population that fetishizes my reproductive organs and goes home to talk about their extreme jealousy on the internet. A significantly higher percentage of the trans population seems to fall into the "incel" category than the general male population. I know we're not supposed to say any of this, so I imagine I'll be receiving a strike even though I'm talking about a very specific slice of the trans population.

If trans people would like not to be tarred with the same brush, they need the approach that the LGB movement took when the pedos tried to sign on. Push them out, do it publicly, and make sure people know you're not associated with the incel type of trans person. Otherwise, people like me will be protecting their privacy and safety by limiting exposure to the category in general until they sort out their incel problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if your post gets deleted WombOfOnesOwn but you're spot on.

I agree entirely, Womb. The fact that that is such a verboten thing to say just highlights the screaming red flags, imo.

Completely agree WombsOfOnesOwn and if you receive a strike for repeating fear then that says more about this site than it does you.

I have deleted this thread. I'd rather not be associated with the story.