Labour’s pledge re exemptions is meaningless

[HermioneWeasley]

In today’s web chat John McDonnell confirmed that they will bring in self ID for your legal sex, effectively
making their manifesto pledge re single sex spaces pointless

This is what I always suspected

There is no safety in Labour for women and they have not had a change of heart

Lentil is doing that common and now boringly transparent tactic of "I am a Good Person and Good People only vote Labour. So, are you a Good Person or not?"

"Women go to university to find a husband" is your party.

WTAF?

Oh and...nope...still not voting Labour.

So, in my position, having a labour candidate who shows signs of being open to engagement on the issue, would that be good enough for you to vote for her, despite the shite the top brass are coming out with?

I would have thought we're never going to get a party with a realistic chance of forming a government and with a decent policy on this issue, if we don't work on candidates like this.

So, in my position, having a labour candidate who shows signs of being open to engagement on the issue, would that be good enough for you to vote for her, despite the shite the top brass are coming out with?

Is she prepared to vote against the whip on this issue if elected? If not, no.

Why the actual fuck should I need to persuade and 'work on' a Labour party candidate to tell her that men are not women FGS? That women are a sex class all of their own? That men harm women and that women need to be kept safe?

It is the huge betrayal that I cannot get over. How fucking DARE they fuck women over in this way and then expect us to roll over and vote for them? Fuck that. I am furious about this.

It's the entitlement that's really annoying me - this conviction that women have a moral duty to support them. They propose wiping us out as a sex class, abuse us when we protest and then they've got the nerve to keep on rolling up on here to tell us off for not wanting to vote for them. Not a glimmer of self reflection.

Yes Flo - the sheer arrogance of them is breathtaking.

Is she prepared to vote against the whip on this issue if elected? If not, no.

That, I don't don't know. I just asked for her views on various topics including this. And didn't set out my views, but as the other topics were also relevant to women's rights, it wouldn't take a genius to work out which side I was coming from. It was an opening gambit, to see if it might be worth taking the time to engage further, or if she's a lost cause.

And yes, we shouldn't have to do any "working on", but will it get better if we don't?

I agree with koshkat
I was out the other night taking with a die-hard labour supporter (as I have been). I stated that I would be spoiling my ballot with a full explanation on why written on it. He couldn't believe it especially as it was about the GRA and the erosion of women's rights. He actually asked how men identifying as women could possibly affect me.
He is an intelligent man - very clever. Another friend and I explained to him (she is very gc) in no uncertain terms exactly how the advancement of the trans agenda eroded women/female rights.
My point is that a lot of people do not even have this on their radar. It's not even up there especially with Brexit being the main focus of the election. Especially buried deep in manifestos. Most people just think live and let live and apply no further critical thought to the consequences.
I think all the parties are embedded deep in this. I am hopeful that the LGB Alliance will become more and more vocal and instrumental on throwing light on this when the time comes.
I certainly trust the Tories no more than I trust Labour or the others on this issue.
And I will still be spoiling my ballot paper.

@LentilHearted
The one issue is GRA reform which from the labour manifesto and John's replies is not clear and needs work, a lot of work. If women abandon the party in favour of spoiled ballots and tory votes, then no positive progress can be made because only TRAs and lib-fems will be involved in the research and decision making. That's what I mean by one issue, women's rights affect us all, abandoning the left will make things worse. But that's it, I see the general 'I'm alright' attitude on this site and it sickens me.

How dare you. Wake up and do it fast. Politicians are already exclusively listening to TRA's and libfems.

All political parties are now aligned with UKIP in that they will abolish equality for women.
Choosing to implement a policy that removes rights from women will disproportionately affect Muslim women, Jewish women, Sikh women, Gypsy women, disabled women, women in prison, women in hospital, women on psychiatric wards, women in care homes, women in DV shelters, poor women who have no choices.
The most vulnerable women.

If they need our vote this badly then why the actual fuck would they tie our vote to an ideology that removes autonomy from 50% of the population?
They are going to make it a hate crime for us to speak out.

So do please explain how you intend to do any campaigning for women's rights next year.

And yes, we shouldn't have to do any "working on", but will it get better if we don't?

The AWAs have been working on them for years, so we probably will have to work on them to try to undo the work of the AWAs.

will it get better if we don't?

She's the seller. You're the buyer. It's up to her to convince you.

I'm in a very safe Conservative seat: so safe they don't even bother campaigning for re-election. I emailed all candidates (except the MP as I've already corresponded with him, and he is very much against self ID and medicalising kids), and last night received a reply from Labour PPC.

As the candidate is about 25 and tipped for big things - the local party has been open about this being a "practice" election before he's given a seat he can win - I wasn't expecting much. Instead I was pleasantly surprised (extracts):

I absolutely agree that women should have the right to organise and speak freely? I am aware with the besieging of the WPUK meeting in Brighton in September and was also particularly disturbed by the events, which we must ensure are not repeated in any setting in future.

I absolutely commit to upholding women's sex-based rights as outlined in the Equality Act 2010. As your MP I would also promote ensuring that the single-sex-based exemptions contained in the Equality Act 2010 are understood and fully enforced in service provision

I'm just going to go back to him and clarify a few things, such as whether he'd be willing to vote against the whip if necessary.

Any political party that can put women’s rights up for debate and still expect — and get — votes from women — well, women will NEVER have power or win anything they fight for in such a party. The leadership will know they can safely take women’s votes for granted.

The only way to have leverage is to wield it.

Causing a politician to lose — that’s leverage. All the better when women are seen by others as the reason that politician lost.

Politicians have decided they can cater to the Woke because women have nowhere else to go and will vote for them regardless.

I’m quite certain the Woke have made it clear that if they don’t get exactly what they want, up to and including the correct use of spacing between words in publicly released statements, they will withhold their votes.

Clearly, no politician currently believes women will leverage their own self-interest with such resolve.

Lysistrataknowsherstuff

Ask him if he believes transwomen are women. If he does, then his reassurances mean bugger all.

If all women who are against self id spoiled their ballot then parties would go holy shit, all this % of votes is up for whoever keeps sex based protections in place.

Previously the % who are against self id won’t have been significant. I think by now it might be enough to be noticeable. At the very least a significant number of spoiled votes would push questions into why, increase more the number of journalists speaking up, increase public discussions and spread further awareness.

Fighting to change things from inside the party hasn’t done anything notable yet, so supporting them and trying to chip away from the inside when they already take women for granted could take centuries. Did suffragettes get the vote by appeasing the nice menz and asking for a favour after a day of cooking cleaning raising kids and bending over backwards for them?

Well there's one reason to be glad they haven't a hope in hell

And i agree with @vmisamarshmallow

"Don't bother fighting then, get your information second hand, wring your hands and look the other way when austerity kills more people and hold yourselves personally responsible. "
Kills. That's awfully reminiscent of the spurious suicide stats pushed by the TRAs. 'Do what I tell you or there's blood on your hands!'

Showing your hand a bit there @LentilHearted.

*"If all women who are against self id spoiled their ballot then parties would go holy shit, all this % of votes is up for whoever keeps sex based protections in place.

Previously the % who are against self id won’t have been significant. I think by now it might be enough to be noticeable. At the very least a significant number of spoiled votes would push questions into why, increase more the number of journalists speaking up, increase public discussions and spread further awareness."*

That is my hope, and why I will be spoiling my ballot. The only thing still to be decided is what I will spoil it with. What will I write to get the message across?

If it's possible to vote lab or lib and then fight for sex based rights after the general election, surely its possible to vote Tory and then fight against austerity.

Or vote for none of them and fight for what you believe whenever you want.

Where- I expect I’m just writing NONE across it as is the standard spoiling ballot practice (from what I understood). I’ve seen discussions here previously saying to spoil a ballot with woman=adult human female, or the penis stickers with that message on. I will be emailing all candidates to tell them I’m spoiling my ballot and why though. And pointing out they would have had my vote if they had stood against self id (although that will be a lie when I email our current Tory mp but still...)

Politicians have decided they can cater to the Woke because women have nowhere else to go and will vote for them regardless

Yep. And this thread is proof of that.

Just bumping this thread as I've finally had a reply to the follow-up email I sent my local Labour candidate.

He'd responded to my first mail with one line saying -

'Whilst we are committed to reforming the GRA, we will do so whilst retaining justified same-sex exemptions, such as in prisons, refuges and changing rooms.'

I asked if that meant that Labour will protect the sex-based exemptions in the EA and that they will specifically apply to biological women only.

His reply today said -

We've aimed to clarify some of the confusion here with a statement from Ann Henderson, Chair of Labour’s NEC Equalities Committee, for clarification:
“Labour’s Manifesto contains many pledges which will dramatically improve the lives of women, and also of other groups in society currently facing discrimination and prejudice. It has met with an enthusiastic response, which has been great to see.
The Manifesto commitment on single sex exemptions as outlined in the Equality Act 2010, is as it is written.
It is clear from the work of the UK Parliament’s Women and Equality Select Committeeee_, and some of the submissions to Labour’s National Policy Forum, that the exemptions are poorly understood and that, in practice, there are often barriers to service providers and employers using the exemptions as they were intended to be used.^
So Labour will take that up, as stated in the Manifesto.”

Am still none the wiser! Any idea how I can respond please?

Until they clearly define what they mean by 'women' and 'single-sex', I'd be wary. They still seem to have no issues with males on all-women shortlists and if self ID means a male's sex can become legally female, then what's to stop single-sex spaces including those males?