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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Athlete Dr Rachel McKinnon publishes an OP-ED in NYT.

39 replies

presidentbarbie · 06/12/2019 01:15

I thought this would be an interesting read for anyone following the Transwomen in Female Sports debacle.

www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/opinion/i-won-a-world-championship-some-people-arent-happy.html

Quoted from OP-ED :
"Trans women are women. We are female. And we are not taking over. No openly trans woman has set an open elite world record in any sport (remember: mine is in masters racing). No openly trans woman has won an elite world championship in any sport, let alone a medal."

How do fellow mumsnetter's feel about the application of the biological term female to describe Transwomen?

OP posts:
JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 01:22

I feel like McKinnon has a fucking cheek to appropriate the term 'female' for McKinnon's self. McKinnon is male. McKinnon takes the places (medal or otherwise) of female athletes. Mckinnon's choice to do so is unethical.

I think that covers it.

Oh, and the NYT is trash.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 01:27

Should expand...the NYT is trash for publishing the words of a male who told women to 'die in a grease fire'.

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2019 01:35

feel like McKinnon has a fucking cheek to appropriate the term 'female' for McKinnon's self. McKinnon is male.

McKinnon is entirely predictable. You could set your watch by McKinnon.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 01:48

I hope no-one gives the NYT clicks by clicking on the linked article. Clicks will just encourage them to publish more of unethical male McKinnon's bad takes on female sports and female competition.

MoleSmokes · 06/12/2019 01:48

This topic is listed in the index as "Vote" but I cannot see any voting options.

Some extracts from the article linked:

"The velodrome in Manchester, England, is a beautiful, fast indoor track. Its corners are gentle, and the temperature and humidity are well managed for speed. In October, racing in Manchester, I broke the masters women’s world record in the 200-meter time trial by 0.24 seconds with a time of 11.649 seconds. This race happened during qualification for the Female 35-39 Sprint event. My record is still slower than records in the 40-44 and 45-49 age categories.

People are angry because I’m a transgender woman, and I race in the women’s category."

"People love to claim that I cheated. I didn’t. Cycling’s governing body, the Union Cycliste Internationale, has no doubts that I followed all of the rules. I completed an antidoping test to ratify my world record. I didn’t use any suspicious or dangerous tactics in any of my races. (They’re still on YouTube; you can watch them for yourself.)

Many want me to race against men. I have news for them: I’m not allowed. I’m legally female. My birth certificate, passport, driver’s license, U.S. permanent resident card, medical records and my racing license all have an “F” on them. The Union Cycliste Internationale, USACycling, Cycling Canada, the Canadian and United States governments and the state of South Carolina all agree that I’m female.

The rules require me to race in the women’s category. That’s exactly where I belong: I am a woman, after all. I am female as well."

"I am far from the fastest female track cyclist in the world."

"I returned home from the 2019 Masters Track Cycling World Championships with a gold in the sprint, a silver in the 500-meter time trial, and another world champion’s rainbow jersey.

Some people think this is unfair because I used to have more testosterone in my body, once upon a time. They think this, even though my body hasn’t been able to produce testosterone for seven years. I transitioned in 2012. My testosterone levels are so low that they’re undetectable, and have been that way since 2012."

"Some people think it’s unfair because they claim my body developed differently than many other women’s bodies. But women come in all sorts of different shapes and sizes, and some elite cyclists are even bigger than me. I’m six feet tall and weigh 190 pounds. Dutch track cyclist Elis Ligtlee, an Olympic gold medalist, is taller and heavier than me at 6 foot 1 inches and 198 pounds. She towered over Kristina Vogel, who at 5 foot 3 inches and 136 pounds, was the more accomplished track sprinter. Bigger isn’t necessarily faster. While they were still competing, these women were clearly much faster than me. I wouldn’t have stood a chance."

"If you think I have an unfair competitive advantage, consider this: I lose most of my races. I won five out of 22 events in 2019; none of those I won were against strong international fields. The woman who took second place to me in the masters world championship sprint event, Dawn Orwick, beat me just days earlier in the 500-meter time trial. In the 12 times I’ve raced against Jennifer Wagner, who finished third to my first place in the sprint event in 2018, she beat me in seven. Wagner has beaten me more times than I’ve beaten her, head-to-head. How can I have an unfair advantage over her if she beats me most of the time? And why should my right to compete be contingent on not winning?"

"Trans women are women. We are female. And we are not taking over. No openly trans woman has set an open elite world record in any sport (remember: mine is in masters racing). No openly trans woman has won an elite world championship in any sport, let alone a medal.

There haven’t been any reported cases of gender fraud, where a male athlete is given a female passport or birth certificate by an unscrupulous nation, for the purposes of slipping a “man” into a women’s Olympic event. If there were going to be mass gender fraud, we’d have seen it by now."

----

It would take a long time to fact-check all of the assertions in McKinnon's article but I am reminded of the titles of some book chapters and articles McKinnon has written . . .

"Propaganda, Lies and Bullshit in Bioshock's Rapture",

"Sure the Emperor Has No Clothes, but You Shouldn't Say That".

Then there is the description of McKinnon's book:

"When we make claims to each other, we're asserting. But what does it take to assert well? Do we need to know what we're talking about? This book argues that we don't. In fact, it argues that in some special contexts, we can lie."

Trans Athlete Dr Rachel McKinnon publishes an OP-ED in NYT.
Trans Athlete Dr Rachel McKinnon publishes an OP-ED in NYT.
Trans Athlete Dr Rachel McKinnon publishes an OP-ED in NYT.
MoleSmokes · 06/12/2019 01:51

Sorry JanesKettle - saw your reply too late!

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 01:54

God, these people are so tedious. The people who buy the NYT and read this and nod their woke little heads along are also tedious.

McK is so fucking boring, besides anything else. Me, me, me. McK is also a terrible prose writer. In my opinion, of course.

I do agree that McK is not cheating, which is why I described McK as a male who makes unethical choices, and not as a cheater.

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 01:55

Ha! No worries, Mole

You've taken a click on the chin for the rest of us! Now we can just read the extracts and know that we are missing precisely nothing by not clicking :)

pallisers · 06/12/2019 01:57

yeah I read this earlier when I clicked on the NYT (I have a subscription). depressing that it is out there without any discussion. The NYT already has Jenny Boylan doing a lot of op eds dealing with trans issues.

I can only hope that the photo they chose to illustrate the article shows some editorial fairness - because it certainly spoke to me. maybe not though.

The sad thing is my own daughters would agree with her.

MyMajesty · 06/12/2019 02:02

Of course transwomen are not female, whatever letter someone writes on their documents.

MoleSmokes · 06/12/2019 02:29

Four very short cartoon clips from 2003 on "Literal Violence" (!) YouTube chanel:

"A man identifies as a woman so he can dominate female sports. Sound familiar? Futurama knew this ideology was stupid in 2003. 14 years later, trans advocates call it progressive."

"Ever been beat up by a guy dressed like a chick?" Futurama exposes trans nonsense."

""I want a sex change and give it to me NOW!" Futurama exposes trans nonsense"

""I'm just out there making us ladies look good." Futurama exposes trans nonsense"

"Women today are too stuck up to jiggle their jello." Futurama exposes trans nonsense"

BrandineDelRoy · 06/12/2019 03:48

I'm glad to see this topic reposted. My post of it from this morning got removed.

Milanimilani · 06/12/2019 05:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DuMondeB · 06/12/2019 05:43

It’s bonkers to call yourself female when you aren’t - like changing the sex marker on your medical records and the ID emergency workers will pull when you are unconscious.

We’re still pretty early days in properly understanding the enormous differences between F and M in medical terms, but we already know that female hearts don’t like being transplanted into male bodies and boys need a whole extra years worth of leukaemia treatment.

This transman almost missed out on being listed for a kidney transplant because the doctors were evaluating using the male guidelines:
clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/63/11/1680

Oblomov19 · 06/12/2019 05:58

McK claims to be female. But that's just not true. Is it?

JanesKettle · 06/12/2019 06:17

It's only 'true' in a world in which the earth is flat, and right-side up is upside-down. That is, not at all.

BlueGingerale · 06/12/2019 06:33

Also doesn’t discuss the very dangerous goings on in contact sports like rugby and martial arts where trans people are causing very serious injuries to other players.

Kit19 · 06/12/2019 07:16

McKinnon can claim to be whatever they want & if Canada is daft enough to allow biological males to legally call themselves females that’s their mistake

McKinnon is not & never will be a woman

HandsOffMyRights · 06/12/2019 07:23

I feel that the recent South Park episode, Board Giris, tells me all I need to know about R.McKinnon.

It's a masterpiece.

WombOfOnesOwn · 06/12/2019 07:26

How can he have a competitive advantage if any woman is capable of beating him?

I want to show him the episode of South Park where Cartman runs in the Special Olympics. He comes in last in his events, because of course a fat, out-of-shape kid with an allergy to exercise isn't going to be able to defeat every kid in a Special Olympics event who's practiced their heart out.

The fact that you get your ass kicked in a sporting event isn't evidence that you didn't come in with an advantage. At age 25 I'd have lost a sprint against a trained 8 year old, but that doesn't mean it'd be fair for 25 year olds, generally, to compete against 8 year olds.

HandsOffMyRights · 06/12/2019 07:31

That's correct Womb
The Fast show had a regular sketch 'Competitive Dad' which sums this up.

HandsOffMyRights · 06/12/2019 07:33

And one more thing

Nobody likes a cheat

breakfastpizza · 06/12/2019 07:36

The selfishness of it - taking the spot from a women, then gaslighting the narrative to justify - it just reeks of maleness to me.

teawamutu · 06/12/2019 07:36

Mckinnon is a misogynistic waste of space. That is all.

Blue5238 · 06/12/2019 07:39

This further demonstrates the problem with the labour party proposal to have self ID but 'maintain single sex spaces'. People like McKinnon believe that changing ID documents genuinely amounts to changing sex and thus the right to be in women's spaces. And if challenged have the documentation to 'prove' it