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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Newsnight now

131 replies

bellabelly · 04/12/2019 23:04

Emily Maitliss grilling Sarah Wollaston (LD) about gender self-id. Good!

OP posts:
arethereanyusernamesleftatall · 04/12/2019 23:49

If we're fangirling, and especially if we're writing, it's perhaps worth mentioning that it's Maitlis

Blush

You're right, of course. OK, so it's:

Emily Maitlis
c/o BBC Newsnight,
Zone D, 3rd Floor,
BBC Broadcasting House,
Portland Place,
London,
W1A 1AA.

OvaHere · 04/12/2019 23:52

I did have to laugh at Sarah trying to say that self declaration is perfectly okay and nothing to worry about but in the next breath that anyone who looks male would obviously make women uncomfortable in an intimate setting.

Sarah, you can't square that circle no matter how much you bluster.

Angryresister · 04/12/2019 23:53

Second time today for the Lib Dem on this, managed to regurgitate the same rubbish while completely ignoring actual women. Emily Maitliss not quite as incisive as in the interview with the psychiatrist from the Tavi the other day but did well bringing it back to women. How can the good doctor not know that very few of these born in the wrong body types actually change anything, and that even if they did , it would still not mean they magically become women. I would have voted for Lib Dem’s on Brexit issue but no way because of this.

xxyzz · 04/12/2019 23:56

Oh, how disappointing. Sarah Wollaston is usually very good in other areas.

I assume she is reciting the script she's been told to, but yes, disappointing for a doctor to not understand this better.

bellabelly · 04/12/2019 23:57

@OvaHere - I thought that too! The TRAs will be denoucing her as a terf after that, you mark my words! @PJsatMidday - I have been considering voting Lib Dem as the tactical voting sites have told me that's my best chance of helping to unseat our tory mp. But I can't vote for this nonsense. Have just seen on twitter Jo Swinson's very clear tweets about gender recognition and self id - fuck that!

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 05/12/2019 00:02

Has EM been called a TERF yet at all for the Tavi interview?

nonsenceagain · 05/12/2019 00:04

Maitlis was good but there was still a lot of conflation of sex and gender (from both her and SW, a doctor FFS).

Melroses · 05/12/2019 00:09

Maitlis was good but there was still a lot of conflation of sex and gender (from both her and SW, a doctor FFS).

This is a problem - you can hardly tell what people mean at times. I can understand why people on here say it is important to define the terms you are using now.

Speakeasy22 · 05/12/2019 00:12

Sarah Wollaston was embarrassingly awful. I’m afraid though that I thought Emily Maitlis should have pushed her more on the self id issue. Wollaston kept talking about transitioning people and surely that’s a separate issue? The urgency is to stop enabling someone who is a man saying he isn’t. And outrageous that a woman in a rape centre should have to say she’s uncomfortable with a man present... it just shouldn’t happen full stop no matter how ‘hurtful’ it is to the man! I honestly don’t think most women have a clue about the potential changes in the law that could happen.

SarahConnorFem · 05/12/2019 00:19

@arethereanyusernamesleftatall
Brilliant idea! I'm going to send one too. Love Emily. ❤️

stumbledin · 05/12/2019 00:20

Have to say I dont think Mailis is that good as a presenter and all too often cant wait to get in her pre rehearsed gotcha questions (as do all the newsnight presenters and it so embarrassing that they are now majority women).

But tonight I thought she was very nearly understanding what the issue actually is (the Tavistock interview was more about why haven't you done the research than challenging the concept) for women.

And again I thought why aren't you talking about refuges, very few rape crisis have physical spaces, it is mainly telephone support etc.. But then she made it clear why she mentioned Rape Crisis. This Lib Dem female Doctor who is using unmedical phrases like assigned gender at birth is a parton of Rape Crisis. WtF? This is going to make them look even more fence sitting than ever (but does prove a point I made on another thread that it isn't just funders presurising women service providers it is all the so called professional who about as feminist as Barbie who get to be trustees or MC members and in no time at all are pressurising staff to follow one of their pet projects).

Personally I would like to thank all of those who have been putting pressure on the BBC over the past few years, because there is no way that that segment on newsnight would have been allowed even 6 months ago.

So yes thank the presenter, but it wont have been just her. somehow the editorial position at the BBC has shifted ever so slightly. Was it Woman's Hour putting their head above the parapet or ... all the mumsnetters who have challenged them.

One other small niggle. Great to get the issue of women's rights aired like this. But lets face it, it could have been the current BBC agenda of lets make the Lib Dems look really stupid.

Hope to see Daewn Butler in the hot seat and have someone, Emily or anyone, get her to explain why women's sex based rights are being sacrificied by the Party that says it is about equality.

totalnamechanger · 05/12/2019 00:38

I agree that that is outrageous speakeasy. I’m sure many of us- even when comparatively not that vulnerable- have sometimes found it difficult to speak out. A leg pushing into you ‘accidentally’ on a train/ sexism at work...

Is a woman who has just been raped really going to be comfortable asserting herself by saying she’d prefer not to be treated by someone or wait in a room with someone of the opposite sex (who is presenting as a woman)? Would she feel she had that agency? Or would she worry that she could be accused of a hate crime. Or be told that that person over there is in fact a woman. Or that that person is even more vulnerable because as a transgender person, they are a member of the most vulnerable group in society. Are women in refuges and rape centres really expected to cope with this as well?

NotAssigned · 05/12/2019 07:53

I'm not sure Emily was conflating sex and gender - although it will have been lost on the average viewer. She was challenging SW on biological sex.

I know people like Wollaston. They've met a few young passing transwomen (HSTS) who are decent people with tales to tell about likely discrimination they have faced. And SW being an empathic person cannot in her mind picture these people, who superficially appear to be women and have had a rough time from family or strangers, being made to use men's facilities. And she is trying to make everything else fit that.

She is probably blissfully unaware of the AGP issue.

I really don't think this is about her just toeing the party line.

She needs to be a lot more curious to be an MP worth her salt.

OvaHere · 05/12/2019 08:23

Courtesy of ripx4nutmeg on twitter

Sarah Wollaston, 30:24 "I don't think it threatens women that trans people can self ID"

32:38 "A tiny number will exploit this to be violent towards women. We need a separate route for them"

35:53 "If someone is obviously male in a women's changing room, that's inappropriate"

EvaHarknessRose · 05/12/2019 08:31

It's like the scales are falling from her eyes in real time.

NotAssigned · 05/12/2019 08:50

I don't think the scales are falling from her eyes. She is one of a large number of people who think that you can have self ID and still keep out people who are 'not really trans'

She's probably been chatting with fellow LibDem Layla 'I can see into their souls' Moran.

teawamutu · 05/12/2019 08:53

Utterly appalling for a patron of Rape Crisis and a medical Dr.

A patron of Rape Crisis. A. Patron. Of. RAPE. CRISIS.

NotAssigned · 05/12/2019 08:53

And Sarah, if you are reading, nearly every transwoman is 'obviously male'

myfavouriterain · 05/12/2019 09:02

Patron of Rape Crisis?

How do we change that then? Because clearly she's not fit for it.

NellieEllie · 05/12/2019 09:07

But Wollaston actually said when pressed, something like its not on if someone is in a changing room, male body, “obviously not transitioning”. Which makes no sense, as if it’s self Id, there IS NO requirement re appearance/surgery etc.

Maitless was FAB.
BUT I wish people would make VERY clear that the law as proposed by Lib Dem’s is not about allowing access to women’s spaces of THOSE WHO ID as women. It’s those who SAY they identify as women. With no objective assessment whatsoever, its basically believing what anyone says.

PurpleCrowbar · 05/12/2019 09:19

Card sent via TouchNote Smile.

birdsdestiny · 05/12/2019 09:20

Wollaston is in a party that treats women like non human beings, I write this list everytime lib dems are discussed but prostitution, porn, self ID are all vigorously supported by the lib dems. Either Wollasten supports the lib dems stance or she is willing to sacrifice anything to be an MP. It's not a lack of curiosity.

OldCrone · 05/12/2019 09:21

She said that most transwomen wouldn't want to make women uncomfortable by using their services. She should have a chat with Lib Dem candidate Helen Belcher, who was quite clear in a Newsnight interview that Belcher doesn't give a shit about how uncomfortable Belcher's presence makes women. It's all about validating Belcher as a woman.

refusetobeasheep · 05/12/2019 09:26

Rather infuriating that she let Sarah get away with saying very few trans women will cause an issue eg in changing rooms - we're not expecting many too, but we do know predatory males (not trans) will take advantage and claim they are women to get access. Also infuriating at the end when Sarah trotted out the suggestion that worried women are transphobic - this should be called out as the dog whistle it is to close down debate. But thanks a Emily for shedding the sunlight on this!

KettlePolly · 05/12/2019 09:33

Just watched it.

Basically "budge up women"

Why do we have to make space? Why can't men own this and budge up to make space?

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