Another SNP member having to resign due to ‘antisemitism’

[Birdsfoottrefoil]

Denise Findley:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18080232.new-snp-resignation-alleged-anti-semitism/

I suspect it is no coincidence that these posts have come to light when you read who has been supporting her. However, her posts were certainly ill-advised. Israel as a state can be rightly criticise but comparing it to Nazis is never going to read well and your point will immediately be lost in the comparison. Is it antisemitism or just offensive?

The problem is people who speak out and go against the grain to raise genuine issues of concern are also those who are generally less guarded in what they say.

If you think repeated use of comparisons of Israel = Nazism is anti-Semistic, then why are you bothered that someone who did that very thing has been booted ?

I understand being angry that a GC candidate was anti-Semitic, but surely no-one can be sad/mad that she's gone ?

We see you, Birds.

You can fuck off now.

PS Nothing about caring for Palestinians requires you to be anti-Semitic to Jews.

You don't support one oppressed people by oppressing another lot.

*because it brings the GC movement into disrepute

Not sure I understood your last comment, JanesKettle, but I hope that people would be sad that a GC candidate was anti-Semitic on behalf of the Jews upset/affected by this and not only because it might make GC feminists look bad.

I am being accused of something I have not said. I have used words in accordance with dictionary meaning and accused of making up my own meaning. I have been told I can criticise the government of Israel then told the government is made up if the people and I would be criticising them. That by pointing out I have not said something it is suggested I am excusing it. For goodness sake! Why bother with the real enemy when you can create one right here!

Sure you did, Birds.

not only because it might make GC feminists look bad.

Yeah, my comment was a bad take, really. Sorry. I don't quite know what I was trying to express there.

To be clear, we should want candidates to be anti-Semitic because we want a society and governments free of anti-Semistism. Not because PR for our own movements. Whether it looks good for GC feminism or bad for GC feminism is irrelevant, because anti-Semitism, in any context, is wrong.

Surely people can critique military and political actions in Israel without invoking the Nazis. If people do the latter, the discussion inevitably shifts to in inappropriate-ness (or otherwise) if the comparison - and away from the specific actions they want to critique.

Posted too soon - And I agree - anti-semiticism must be fought and rejected on its own merits, independently and alongside anything else going on

The government IS the state. It’s an arm of the state.

Comparisons with Nazis are wrong but the israeli government deserves to be heavily criticised for its treatment of Palestinians, as does the Chinese government and the government of many other countries who commit human rights violations. Pointing this out is not anti-Semitic, just the same as it is not racist to accuse Zimbabwe of human rights abuse. Comparison to Nazism is wrong though.

Pointing out that the actions of the Israeli government are abhorrent isn’t antisemitic.

Comparing them to Nazis is. The IHRA definition of antisemitism lists “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.“

This isn’t rocket science.

Agree noble but there are some people who believe that any criticism of the actions of Israel is anti-Semitic and I have seen this in action time and time again. This is very unhelpful.

Talking about ‘Israel’ very clearly means the state (ie the government) and it is not anti-Semitic to do this. We do this in respect of literally every other country whose regime is criticised. It does not mean that the individual citizens are being criticised.

The one thing I have noted is that often the pro-Palestine people are the woke-bros who harass women with GC views. Maybe they will get a taste of their own medicine and see how it feels to be vilified and have your words twisted when you are just making a reasonable point.

but there are some people who believe that any criticism of the actions of Israel is anti-Semitic

They’re wrong. But we have an OP who thinks it’s not antisemitic to call the Jewish state Nazis. Merely ‘offensive’. Which goes against the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

Agreeing that it is antisemitic to compare these Jews to Nazis but in the same breath arguing that it’s not antisemitic to compare those Jews to Nazis is an odd position to be taking.

Best to avoid comparing any Jews to Nazis, right?

Absolutely party members who make anti-Semitic comments should be out.

What is interesting is how unevenly this is being applied. Only members who are openly GC are having their tweets examined in this way by other party members. Other party members who have also tweeted deeply offensive comments, and openly gloat about how they are getting people removed so their own people can take their places.

Removing anti Semitic people is a useful side effect, but it is not their goal, which is to purge gender critical people from the party. Those of you who are happy to see this happening to the SNP are correct. The SNP is not going to be able to continue much past this election as they are going to implode.

Is very easy to criticise the state of Israel without being anti-Semitic. People who feel otherwise need to take a hard look at themselves.

wingsoverscotland.com/the-attack-of-the-purity-police/

The Clive Ponting case struck down the high court ruling that "The interests of the state are the interests of the government of the day."

The state is the territory bounded by a border and everything contained therin.

And for Israel to be like the Nazis, the Nazis would have to be like Israel, with one-fifth of their citizens Jewish, regular democratic elections, an independent judiciary and a diverse free media.

None of the above absolves Israel from the many crimes committed by Likud govts since 1976, any more than Israel's actions absolve Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and other Palestinian terror groups from their many crimes, mostly against Palestinians.

But we have an OP who thinks it’s not antisemitic to call the Jewish state Nazis

No I did not say that. I asked if it was antisemetic to compare the two, nor did I say ‘merely’ offensive. To offend a whole country/people has nothing ‘merely’ about it. I hadn’t spent a lot of time thinking about the definition of antisemitism so a quick explanation was what I was after - though I am sure I won’t shift some PP who believe I made up my own meaning for the word ‘state’ and am a hateful bigot.

Cripes wings is on a roll

wingsoverscotland.com/two-woke-princes/

I agree with pp - the speech marks around anti-semitism in the OP are a really poor look. As is the nitpicking around semantics.

As a left wing woman I feel absolute common cause with British Jews who cannot understand how theso-called progressive left has turned against them and become the enemy.

So the argument is “these horrid men did it and got away with it so we should too”.

That’s not really a good excuse for blatant anti-semitism. What the SNP should be doing is also suspending the men who are doing it. Surely that’s the discussion point?

littlebrowndog that article appears to be total drivel. Saying Israel is aggressive or violent or whatever isn’t comparing Israel to Nazis because crucially, the word ‘Nazi’ is missing.

I wonder if the second world war is just too distant now for people to actually connect with?

I worked with a man when I was nineteen who had numbers tattooed on his arm. We didn't share a language but I remember him very well. He was very old at the time and I was young and I suppose he will be dead now and that not many of us here in the UK in 2019 have had that experience of looking at actual numbers tatooed on an actual person by a political regime for the purpose of exterminating those people.

I find it so incredibly awful that people can view that horror and pain with the kind of detachment you would need to argue that this current political conduct - dancing around the edges of what you can get away with as you talk about Israel - is ok.

What other country is ever referred to as a Nazi state - Iran, China, Myanmar, North Korea? Why Israel? I think it's pretty clear why and it's nothing to do with concern for human rights.

What other country is ever referred to as a Nazi state - Iran, China, Myanmar, North Korea? Why Israel? I think it's pretty clear why and it's nothing to do with concern for human rights.

This on a plate with a cherry on top.