How can you be non binary if there are more than two genders?

[Fairenuff]

If you actually self identify as non binary, what are you really saying?

Obviously you don't believe there are just two sexes, male and female, as otherwise you would agree that you are whichever sex your body actually is.

But if you believe there are several genders then you can't be non binary because genders are not binary.

I think that if you say you are non binary you are, by default, admitting that there are just two sexes and you acknowledge that you are one of them.

So how is any of that part of being transgender?

I've just discovered I might be non binary. If not following stereotypes and presenting as typically either male or female then I'm non binary right? Except as has been said , I'm just like the majority of the population if I apply those criteria.
Anyway I don't have time to be special. I have to take the dog out, wash school uniforms, visit my elderly parents and crack on with my uni assignments. I don't have time to go for a wee let alone gaze at my navel

I sort of understand the desire for non binary as a concept. You've seen the two boxes and you don't want to be constrained by either.

But recognise it for what it is. It's about stereotypes and assumptions. Your sex doesn't change. Non binary is shorthand for don't assume how to treat me.

Except it does nothing to stop the assumptions. That would be feminism.

I'm not sure why non binary people appear so self obsessed tho.

Absolutely @Datun.

Also, there is so much in life that we don't want others to assume about us, other than our "gender". I don't understand why non binary people, and the LGBT movement are so completely focused on one aspect of their life.

Isn't being labelled "non binary" just another stereotype, with which everyone else will make even more assumptions?

Isn't being labelled "non binary" just another stereotype, with which everyone else will make even more assumptions?

Well yes, and we all are. Self obsessed snowflakes!

I guess there is a human need to categorise.

It's my belief that non-binary has become a thing, because of the relentless division of the sexes into pink and blue. It's a phenomenon that is everywhere, and little wonder that people are getting sick of it.

Hmm, perhaps, yes. Also, I think the desire for attention and to be made to feel special, internalises simple signals about in society in such a way that the victim or "not about me" status is achieved nicely. They then can protest against that, use it as a excuse for their personal failures etc.

I was in a cafe somewhere a couple of weeks ago and popped to the loo. One loo just had a pink retangle on it, the other blue. No words. I instantly knew which one to go in, didn't feel offended - and I was a real tom boy growing up, my profession is very male dominated etc.

I smiled when I saw those loo doors, they reminded me of nicer times, and I also thought what guts that cafe must have to still have them up given the current climate.

In today's news: www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7742939/Billy-Dee-Williams-comes-gender-fluid-new-interview.html

'While speaking with Matt Miller, Billy Dee opened up about his comfortable feelings on gender.

'You see I say "himself" and "herself," because I also see myself as feminine as well as masculine,' he revealed.

'I’m a very soft person. I’m not afraid to show that side of myself.'

So, is that why Billy's gender fluid?
Soft person equals feminine?

So when I'm 'tough' does that make me male? Am I gender fluid?
Who knew it was so simples.

Soft person equals feminine?

In their head, it does. We've gone backwards.

I thought non-binary was a modern way of saying "single".

Or self-partnered Horse as Emma Watson calls it

So when I'm 'tough' does that make me male? Am I gender fluid?

That reminded me of the Meg-John Barker thread from last year. According to non binary Meg it might just make you 'Northern'.

Being a woman in a British cultural context often means adhering to social norms of femininity, such as being nurturing, caring, social, emotional, vulnerable, and concerned with appearance.

However, of course, not all women adhere to all these things. For example some neurodiverse women (on the autistic/aspergic/ADHD spectrums) may struggle to express emotions, or with social situations. In some northern working-class contexts femininity is associated with strength and aggression.

Link to thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

Thanks Old I need a good chuckle this morning.

The language of ‘identify as’ and ‘gender’ truly obfuscates, it is meaningless and I hate it.

Every time I see it I replace it with ‘claims as’ or declares as’ or ‘thinks of self as’ and ‘sex’, the fog then lifts and you see it for what it is.

.. or "self deludes themselves to think", "imagines", "pretends".

I'm sure the "cool girl" rant from Gone Girl could be re-written to apply to "non binary."

At the risk of mixing my literary metaphors, it's a fancy way of saying "do it to Julia" (because she must like her oppression because she hasn't given herself a fancy name, unlike me).

Though kudos to Lurker for pointing out that there may well be some people for whom it is actually a useful way of handling their dysphoria (rather than simply an expression of narcissism).

Though kudos to Lurker for pointing out that there may well be some people for whom it is actually a useful way of handling their dysphoria

Yes, it may well be useful for them. In the same way as others with mental conditions have other behaviours and beliefs which are helpful to them.

But why should I be forced by others and in law to engage in, and use pronouns, adjectives etc, that are part of another's mental condition?

“Identifies as” = “Wishes others to pretend they are”

It looks as if our government are going to allow non binary passports now.

Male, female and non-binary. The "X" stands for unspecified for people who do not identify as male or female

The BBC and The Guardian are writing about the court of appeal case today.

Well if the passport is meant to show gender identity not sex, I will get mine changed

And if every GC woman did the same it might at least raise some awareness of the nonsense that is identity

Do you think I will also be able to identify as German in postwar of British at the same time?

Do you think I will also be able to identify as German in postwar of British at the same time?

Yes, because nationality is just a spectrum... it was all one land mass millions of years ago, nations are just social constructs created with man-made borders... blah blah blah... so yes, can we all self-ID as different nationalities now?

Either there is a reason to give details of a person's sex on a passport (or any other document) or there isn't.

If the information is completely superfluous, just don't ask for it.

I can't think of any situation where it would be necessary to give details of somebody's gender identity, mainly because nobody seems able to explain what a gender identity is.

TowelNumber42 You can’t possibly have Einstein’s brain as i have it. Or at least I have it on Mondays, when it is Einstein a go-go here. (pop reference, kids). What equals mc squared again ?

I think if we are going to go down the route of having gender on official documents, there should be a box for sex too. So people could tick, for example, Sex: Female, Gender: Non binary.