Self-ID is NOT in the SNP manifesto!

[Sunkisses]

Just took a quick look and self-ID is NOT in the SNP manifesto!

There is nothing in there about trans at all, nor about women's sex-based rights in the Equality Act, nor forcing LGBT on primary aged children. There is stuff about women's rights, violence against women and girls, WASPI women, greater representation of women, and they refer to pregnant women, not 'pregnant people'. Phew

Interesting. The SNP's main goal seems to be IndyRef 2. Perhaps they realised that anything divisive threatens that goal.

And women are mentioned...

Wow! If only I lived in Scotland!

Wow. Well done you brilliant SNP women.

Only mention of gender identity is for asylum seekers.

Bit tricky to take that seriously when parents returned their children to school after october break to find the toilets have been converted to unisex no?

Do they actually define what they mean by "woman" anywhere?

I am quite fucked off with the way the SNP have been dismissing half the population including their own fabulous McAlpine (front and centre) and Cherry when perfectly reasonable questions have been asked. Let's not forget "don't be a Jeremy Hunt" Black's revolting diatribe.

Refusing to fund women's groups unless they include men.

Failing girls in school.

Excluding/expelling children who state scientific fact.

Removing single sex provision.

The mesh scandal.

Hate crime initiative omitting women.

Not saying what you are doing whilst doing it anyway is a long way from openly and honestly discussing intended action.

Given that the only other party not explicitly supporting self-ID is the Tories I think I'll risk the SNP on this one...

A recognition that Scotland would be "an independent member of the EU," implicitly acknowledging that this would be new membership for a new member, in contradiction of Stephen Gethin's constant and false assertion that "Scotland is a member of the EU."

Goodness only knows what "Scrap Trident" means: "Trident" is a missile. It is the property of the US Navy, borrowed by the Royal Navy and periodically returned. Whatever the case it is not going to be scrapped.

The Vanguard boats are reaching the end of their service life and will in all cases certainly be scrapped. The UK govt wishes to replace them. Quite how a foreign Scotland is going to tell the UK not to do this is anyone's guess.

Now that's a dramatic reverse ferret. Well done SNP women!

Hmm. Waiting to hear back from my SNP MP candidate about this. I think if they're leaning that way I will vote SNP - it's that or the Tories and I'd rather not vote Tory, to put it mildly.

My SNP candidate looks interesting. And my sitting labour MP has well and truly drunk the koolaid 😡 I don’t want indyref2 though🙁

“Goodness only knows what "Scrap Trident" means”

I’d assume stop paying for it and stop it being in Scotland rather than actually turning it into scrap...

I wouldn’t take anything positive from self ID not being in the manifesto tbh, I suspect it’s just not high on their agenda rather than that they’ve changed their position on it.

I have only skimmed it, but unless there is a very clear statement as to what the SNP means when they say 'woman' I would be cautious about celebrating. I have become very cynical. Unless I have got my politicians mixed up (which is quite possible) I thought NS was very much holding the TWAW line.

Goodness only knows what "Scrap Trident" means

I believe that in and indy Scotland then yes, it wouldn't be based in Scotland and Scotland wouldn't pay for it, or anything similar.

In the more immediate future, it is a condition of SNP propping up a minority labour government (along with another indy ref obviously). In this case it literally means decommissioning I think.

I remember in 2014 some posters on here trying to work out where on earth in England or Wales trident could possibly be placed.
It all got very nimby iirc

I suspect it’s just not high on their agenda

Low on the agenda is better than front and centre... IMO parties don't have principles, they just want to get elected. It is becoming increasingly obvious that self ID and other TRA demands are not actually popular with people outside of the "queer" bubble. Parties stand to lose a lot more votes from the general public than they do from TRAs over this.

I really think we are at a watershed and in the coming years there is going to be an awful lot of back pedalling, and reinstitution of single sex spaces etc.

I also think that the whole stooshie around the census has opened a lot of eyes, including in the SNP and the Scottish Government, about how small groups with agendas using entryism and piggybacking can push an agenda that doesn't actually have any support, scientific or otherwise. I am hopeful that politicians in Scotland will be a bit more critical in their thinking and examine the role of lobby groups, especially those funded by the Government itself.

To my own amazement I'm planning to vote SNP after checking on this with my SNP candidate - she was slightly ambiguous, probably deliberately, but supports Joanna Cherry and has campaigned for women's rights, so it's the best choice left open to me as I can't bring myself to support Johnson or Corbyn.

They are getting there.

I’ve emailed my candidate asking some questions, let’s see what he says!

It definitely appeared to be high on the agenda not very long ago. I'm inclined to interpret this mostly as a sign that they've realized that they will lose more votes than they win by promoting self ID.

Oh and I asked what the party’s definition of woman was😇

I checked the SNP's 2017 manifesto and it is a BIG change as they committed to reforming the GRA previously, but have now decided to remove it. This is VERY significant.

The 2017 SNP manifesto said:

"The SNP Scottish Government is committed to reviewing and reforming gender recognition laws, in line with international best practice. SNP MPs will press the UK government to match the Scottish Government’s commitment to legislation within this parliament."

The SNP also said in their 2017 manifesto:

"we will seek equality law reforms to ensure same-sex couples have equal pension rights and protected characteristics are expanded to ensure all LGBTI people are fully protected from discrimination and harassment"...

...which sounds suspiciously like getting 'gender identity' into the Equality Act, rather than 'gender reassignment'. This has now also been removed.

PUUUULLLLLL

Just be aware that the SNP's general election manifesto and the their manifesto for the Scottish parliament are two completely different things. The self ID second consultation is due to start very soon in the Scottish parliament, for Scotland. SNP are never going to be more than a minority party in the UK parliament so I would look at what they do here, rather than what they say they are going to do there.

The SNP Scottish Government is committed to reviewing and reforming gender recognition laws, in line with international best practice.

That is still very much their commitment in Scotland. Separate rules around self ID in England and Scotland would worry me very much, actually.

The self ID second consultation is due to start very soon in the Scottish parliament

Thanks for the reminder on that - will need to keep an eye on that I do think that it is a (small) positive though that they are even having a second consultation.

I’d assume ("Scrap Trident") means stop paying for it and stop it being in Scotland rather than actually turning it into scrap...

I'm inclined to agree.

So it goes to Milford Haven (cue Welsh screams), to Georgia where the missiles live, or RNB Clyde is made a UK Sovereign base therefore not part of Scotland.

I just checked their website:

www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-action-will-the-snp-to-improve-trans-and-intersex-equality/

And self-ID is still there, but it's not been updated since the end of the last consultation. So yes, people should definitely not assume that the SNP will no longer push this, but at least they appear to be thinking about the issues.