Freedom of speech at school?

[Mbwashenzi]

I'd love your thoughts on this, people. My DD (12) suggested in the school debating society that they should discuss whether transgender athletes should have their own sporting category. Teacher said that it was a good idea but he would have to check whether the school LGBT Soc will let them discuss this topic. They've debated some pretty heavyweight subjects before (death penalty for example), but there's never been any question that a subject is inappropriate. Should I be concerned?

I would be concerned that the school appears to be handing a veto over what can or can't be discussed to one, small, section of their students, yes.

Do girls get to veto what boys discuss? Do atheists get to veto what religious students discuss? No? Then why does this one group get a veto?

I’d be concerned if they don’t let them debate this topic. It’s valid and relevant, there should be no issue but we’re living in strange times.

So the teacher can’t approve a ‘good topic’ for debate without getting permission from one specific group of students? What if it’s vetoed by one student in the group?

I would imagine the LGBT Soc won’t let this debate happen....keep us posted please. Of course it should be allowed to happen.

Be the perfect chance to put their side across wouldnt it. Why be so afraid

Yes, please keep us posted on developments OP.

The teacher should be agreeing and informing the LGBT society at the school that this is happening and do they want to come to listen or make a written contribution.

Yes it should happen and it should remain an open debate for the children in that class or club. Personally I wouldn't invite others to take part who were already immersed in the club and in the type of debates that have already taken place.

Very interested to hear what happens next.

Well a very bright lad in Scotland got expelled for this.

The teacher should be agreeing and informing the LGBT society at the school that this is happening and do they want to come to listen or make a written contribution.

This. It is chilling that the teacher seems to feel the need to gain permission from this group. This is exactly why we have got as far into this mess as we have. The very definition of a debating society is to debate controversial issues. If everyone agrees, then it's more of a tea party!

Is it worth your DD presenting evidence to the teacher about how this debate has been shut down time and time again? I'm sure the MNetters here can help with sources.

That is absolutely unbelievable! A teacher TEACHER asking a bunch of woke children whether it's OK to discuss something?! WTAF are we doing to our children?!

Mockers wasn’t the lad in Scotland expelled for filming a teacher. (Technically)

...WTAF are we doing to scare the shit out of the teachers out of a fear of losing their jobs:

"But now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom, and common vengeance writes the law!”
― Arthur Miller, The Crucible

...WTAF are we doing to scare the shit out of the teachers out of a fear of losing their jobs:

The fear is palpable. It’s the same theme over and over again. Harry, Maya and this. It’s the erosion of free speech and the use of fear to silence dissent and prevent debate.

If you cannot discuss contentious issues then what is the point of a debating society?

If you cannot discuss contentious issues then what is the point of a debating society?

Exactly. What is it teaching children about freedom of speech when their teacher is deferring to a group of students for censorship of topics?

...Technically, yes. They have ways of disposing of difficult senior students.

What is the point of a debating society that is only allowed to debate certain topics? It’s ridiculous

The teacher should be agreeing and informing the LGBT society at the school that this is happening and do they want to come to listen or make a written contribution.

This is exactly the sort of approach that should be taken.

However, given that even universities have capitulated to the trans privilege brigade and cancel discussions and debates because of a tiny number of students, I would be very impressed if a school managed to achieve this.

It is terrible that children are being raised these days to think there are certain topics that are off limits.

Maybe the next topic your dd can propose is Limits on Freedom of Speech.

....or "Are Kittens Fluffy?"

There's a poster on Twitter at the moment, @respectmyright1 , whose daughter is in a whole heap of trouble at her (girls) school for stating people can't change sex, and refusing to back down. Crazy times.

I teach in schools and privately. Recently, children have been asking me (in confidence) if people can change sex. Stonewall and similar pressure groups have been in local schools. The consequence has been confused, sceptical teenagers afraid to discuss biological reality openly. In very bland, factual terms I let them talk through what troubles them when gender is conflated with sex. These teens are not homophobic, they're struggling with cognitive dissonance: taught one thing in biology, then lectured in Woo at special assemblies / workshops.

It is unnerving to be afraid to express my own opinion on this topic - but my role has always been the facilitator in discussions, not one of disclosing my politics. Young people are ultimately on the front line of this debate. They are using logic and reason to navigate biological truth while the adults around them appear to be in the grip of magical thinking.

They shouldn't need to ask. TBH I don't even like the idea of asking for a written submission if they would like to make one. It's inapropriate in a debate formant.

However, I don't know that this is the only topic that might get the same treatment. I would guess that SSM might, or a debate question about race.

I've seen discussions by parents in recent years claiming that some kids should not have to do class debates unless they an take the side they want to, if they feel strongly about the topic. People are not thinking about this the same way they did 30 years ago.

I've seen discussions by parents in recent years claiming that some kids should not have to do class debates unless they an take the side they want to, if they feel strongly about the topic

That's fair enough. I've always enjoyed a good debate, but don't agree with arguing for the sake of arguing.

But I am getting very concerned about the limitations of medicine not being kept a secret from children. People are going into schools telling them that they can choose what sex they want to be and then anyone who says different is gagged.

That's fair enough. I've always enjoyed a good debate, but don't agree with arguing for the sake of arguing.

The whole purpose of formal debate is undermined by saying kids don't have to take positions they don't agree with.

The purpose is to see how to think through arguments you don't agree with, to find the best and strongest of those arguments and avoiding creating straw men, to understand the logic of argument, how to avoid fallacies and how to do research, how to be civil and dispassionate in public discussions. Learning that people you disagree with may have good reason to take the view you do, while your own view may have weaknesses and limitations. It's about learning how to put your own view to the test.

All of these are very important skills in a democracy, ones people seem to be losing.