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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour promises to keep single-sex exemptions

558 replies

RoyalCorgi · 21/11/2019 11:46

From the manifesto:

labour.org.uk/manifesto/tackle-poverty-and-inequality/

"Ensure that the single-sex-based exemptions contained in the Equality Act 2010 are understood and fully enforced in service provision."

This is quite something.

OP posts:
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LizzieSiddal · 23/11/2019 07:21

It’s on R4 now with Ruth from Woman’s Place UK

SuperMeerkat · 23/11/2019 07:25

I’m sick of LGBT being the buzz word/phrase that politicians keep trotting out. It’s like politicians are terrified of upsetting them but when I went to Pride (heterosexual here btw) everyone there was so welcoming. I think that he minority are militant and spoil it for everyone else by making it seem that everyone else is like that.

TimeLady · 23/11/2019 07:52

Looking at the quote mentioned earlier

"A counsellor working with victims of rape might have to be a woman and not a transsexual person, even if she has a Gender Recognition Certificate, in order to avoid causing them further distress."

It's clear that the legislators drafted this to mean there was still a clear distinction in the legal meaning between a 'woman' and a transexual male with a GRC.

That's what's changed, and perhaps explains the reasoning behind the persistent mantra: Transwomen are women.

There needs to be urgent legal clarification and definition of the words used in the relevant legislation.

MrsSnippyPants · 23/11/2019 08:33

I have pondered over this for a couple of days now, and have come to the conclusion that I feel even more insulted by the Labour Party thinking that women would fall for this.

Clearly, if anyone can get a GRC, then single sex exemptions mean nothing. You would have a birth certificate that says you are the sex you choose and there would be no way for anyone to prove you are actually the opposite sex.

I can now only vote for a party that commits to repeal of the GRA, anything else is not worth the paper it is written on.

ApplePenPineapplePen · 23/11/2019 08:44

On R4 now

ApplePenPineapplePen · 23/11/2019 08:45

Enforcement of single sex exemptions, not sure who from Labour wss talking.

Smallblanket · 23/11/2019 08:49

You can't have single sex spaces with self-i'd. Labour's policy is either stupid or deceptive.

But hey it's in the news!!

MrsSnippyPants · 23/11/2019 08:55

It was Laura Pidcock ApplePen, such a load of pointless waffle.

Datun · 23/11/2019 09:53

As it stands, via the grounding in the law, and by extension any guidance around it, manifesto promises etc, our sex based rights are still essentially hanging on whoever decides to grant them.

I agree. How else can you account for Karen White?

Imagine being a female prisoner, statistically likely to have already been subjected to domestic violence, and they put a fucking self confessed, utterly unrepentant, brick shit house rapist in your cell?

And this, to me, is why public opinion is crucial. They don't have to enforce women's rights, so we have to make them.

All the things - crowd funders, court cases, videos, protests, meetings, petitions, mumsnet - getting it in the papers, etc.

And this mealy mouthed, ambiguous, grudging concession by labour indicates it might just be working.

Ereshkigal · 23/11/2019 09:54

Clearly, if anyone can get a GRC, then single sex exemptions mean nothing. You would have a birth certificate that says you are the sex you choose and there would be no way for anyone to prove you are actually the opposite sex.

That is what really needs to be challenged by people. The privacy rules. We can't let it slip under the radar or we are fucked. Agree the GRA needs to go but the privacy rules in it currently conflict with the EA so relaxing them would be a good move.

teawamutu · 23/11/2019 10:02

Just listened to Laura Pidcock's radio interview. Putting aside the cringey "magnificent triumph' not, she did seem to be reiterating the manifesto and contradicting La Butler.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 23/11/2019 10:30

How do you enforce single sex exemptions if you are committing a hate crime/harassment/discrimination/etc to ask what sex someone identifies as? And what is the point of them if everyone can just chose their sex?

Floisme · 23/11/2019 10:38

I remember saying on another thread that I felt like the Labour party and I were in one of those relationships where you take a drunken, late night phone call as a sign that he still cares. Well I feel like I've had that call, but the signal was so bad I couldn't make out what he was saying and now there's a woman posting all over Facebook that he was with her all night.

Come on Labour, sort it out. Despite everything, I'd still like to vote for you and the Lib Dems are breathing down your neck round here.

LangCleg · 23/11/2019 10:47

That is what really needs to be challenged by people. The privacy rules. We can't let it slip under the radar or we are fucked. Agree the GRA needs to go but the privacy rules in it currently conflict with the EA so relaxing them would be a good move.

Yes. At the very least, this needs to be added to DBS.

totalnamechanger · 23/11/2019 10:51

flo Grin

DuMondeB · 23/11/2019 11:38

Laura Pidcock, 1:36:50

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000bm72

Unformidable · 23/11/2019 12:03

Dawn Butler is only a former MP, right??? What she says doesn't mean much.

thirdfiddle · 23/11/2019 12:29

Thanks for the link DuMondeB. Around 1:43 for when she was asked about women's rights. She couldn't quite spit it out could she. She was asked a very clear question, but her answer was still fluffy. Commitment to women's single sex spaces being important; and to provision for transwomen (which I can absolutely agree with). Just needed to add the word "separately" to be clear that those aren't one and the same. On my listening, she still didn't say it.

TooLateThePhalarope · 23/11/2019 12:36

Dawn Butler is only a former MP, right??? What she says doesn't mean much

Butler is shadow equalities and women's minister. You can see her every PMQ on the shadow front bench sycophantically nodding along with her Great Leader's words of wisdom and idiotically muttering to herself.

TooLateThePhalarope · 23/11/2019 12:40

And those posters who think this possible turnaround is so wonderful - seriously that's enough to make you vote for a bunch of antisemitic, crazed Marxists?

merrymouse · 23/11/2019 12:50

It's very difficult to understand how sex based rights can be protected if it's impossible for the law to objectively define what sex is.

MockersFactCheckMN · 23/11/2019 13:01

Dawn Butler is only a former MP, right?

Like the rest of them. Currently there are no MPs until Dec 13.

MockersFactCheckMN · 23/11/2019 13:03

....athough they do get paid for the period they were unemployed if they get back in, and if they fail to get re-elected they get redundancy, but not if they stand down voluntarily.

TooLateThePhalarope · 23/11/2019 13:06

Like the rest of them. Currently there are no MPs until Dec 13

True but I assume Butler is standing again and expects to be re-elected in one of Labour's safest seats?

She is as Iain Banks described a char

TooLateThePhalarope · 23/11/2019 13:09

Sorry posted too soon

She is, as Iain Banks described a character in The Crow Road , of weapons grade stupidity.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/labour-dawn-butler-gets-homelessness-figures-wrong/