Feeling optimistic: it is happening *title edited at OP's request*

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I had lunch today with ex work colleague, he is approaching 50, no children, not someone I know really well, but we meet up every couple of years for a chinwag. He brought up the 'craziness of young people' these days, he looked nervous and I guessed where he was going. It transpired he has had his eyes opened, "that huge cyclist", played a part. The conversation continued and I threw in a few examples of the issues ongoing, the various womens' declarations/pledges, Stonewall's role...It was the first time I've come across a man apart from DH who felt comfortable expressing their GC views face to face in a public place although he trod warily at first until he knew my position. I really believe that this whole debate is coming more mainstream and in so doing, light will be shone on the illogical and dangerous positions that are being taken by public bodies and politicians. I keep trying to have these conversations but I can tell many in my social circle think I'm worrying unnecessarily and can't understand why I am so vocal. Anyway I wanted to share because today for once I feel optimistic that the tide will change.

Great! Its always heartening when you can have a sensible convo about all this.

Apple, MNHQ have banned that phrase; you might want to report your own post and get the title changed; otherwise you risk deletion and a possible 'strike.'

That phrase is not mentioned anywhere in the guidelines. It would be most unfair for anyone to get a strike unless it was clearly being used in a goady or inflammatory manner. I'd say it was being used as a way of compactly indicating that public awareness of the impact on women's rights etc of trans ideology is beginning to become more widespread and people are becoming more willing to discuss it. That wouldn't fit in a thread title though.

www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

Thanks for the headsup, I have self reported in case this specifoc phrase contravenes MN policy

And yes @errolthedragon that was exactly how I was meaning it

Good! I agree that many don't see why it's a problem. I've noticed a lot more GC speakers in the media recently though - some on the online newspapers I read and also on BBC R4. Most of them are still tiptoeing around the issue, but they are, nonetheless, speaking about it.

That phrase is not mentioned anywhere in the guidelines.

Mods have posted (sorry, no time to search for the threads) more than once that the term peak trans will almost always be deleted because it is a negative generalisation about trans people.

It has been pointed out umpteen times in response that it is almost always used to refer to the political ideology based on queer theory and the concomitant regulatory capture and policy changes that have resulted. Not a generalisation about trans people at all. Most of the people supporting this ideology are not trans.

But apparently the perception of those who reported the term are correct and the context and intent of the FWR posters are irrelevant.

I'm starting to speak openly now and a few times had a negative response though at the same time I stood my ground. It was amongst women who hasn't really considered what the insidious undermining on womens rights to safe places.
It was a bit tricky but I'm not going to smile and join in the pony show

I don't think we're there yet but it's coming. More coverage in media, reporting a steady procession of the absurd, more people feeling emboldened to speak up and question it. Sunlight is creeping in. Long way still to go though.

Sensible conversations about how we support those who are in genuine turmoil about having to live as their biological sex whilst protecting the hard fought for sex based rights of women is the only way forward. I've never pretended that those genuinely on a journey to transition don't need support and protected spaces, but that should never be at the expense of biological women.

Wokedom and it's perpetual offence and disregard for the most commonly vulnerable in society women is far more damaging to creating safe spaces for those transitioning than gender critical women/men asking uncomfortable questions about the actual way we're handling these issues.

I only feel safe having these conversations with trusted friends/family. There are an awful lot of the wokedom who'd happily sell me out in my workplace which celebrated IMD by inviting anyone who identified as a man could help themselves to free cake and hot chocolate yep totally took advantage of that in my Dr M clad feet and combat trousers

It's encouraging that more people are broaching these conversations even if they are tip-toeing around it slightly.

Encouraging stuff Apple. Every bit of light helps.

Was heartened the other day to hear one of my DC's was told in assembly Sex is binary, gender is not and You can change your gender not your sex. .

PSHCE lessons a lot more but I sense a somewhat pk trd senior member of staff.

Not everyone reads all the threads and all the posts so how the fuck is one supposed to know unless it is put in the guidelines and the guidelines are flagged up as updated?

I was talking to a group of psychologists today ( as part of a charity event ) and transgender and females came up and each one of them expressed serious concern not only for medical pathways but for the lack of assessment given to children. These people are very respected in their area of expertise and spoke openly and freely, it's clear conversations are happening.

I'm deliberately being vague so they or I are not doxxed.

that huge cyclist

I don’t know why but that really made me laugh

Not that we should need to but could we use code - mountain, apex, crest

Crest adjustment
Apex alteration
Mountain modification

Ok I've forgotten what we were talking about, lost my train of thought or locomotive rumination.

Sex is binary, gender is not and You can change your gender not your sex.

Great that they recognise that sex and gender are different, though of course you cannot change gender (because it is imposed by society), but you can be gender non-conforming (in all sorts of different ways).

Several people have brought it up with me now. On all occasions they started with a little nod to the issue so that they could glean my reaction first. They basically waited until I'd given them permission to speak.

Can we just say “peaked”? On its own?

*Though I suppose you can change gender if you convincingly pass as the opposite sex...

Sorry, I posted in haste earlier and forgot to add that I am not a fan of special restrictions on women's speech and wasn't trying to shut down your good discussion, Apple.

I just wanted to warn you about what mods have said because we've lost all too many women around here. I didn't want you to get a strike without even knowing why, seeing as (as Errol quite rightly points out) that phrase is not listed in the guidelines.

I really believe that this whole debate is coming more mainstream and in so doing, light will be shone on the illogical and dangerous positions that are being taken by public bodies and politicians.
I hope you are right! The cases being heard in court right now have been really illuminating. I hope the best for Maya and Harry, and also for much much much more publicity and critical examination of ideas that have heretofore slipped in unquestioned.

Well I didn't realise I was cresting the mountain every time I rolled my eyeballs during Big Brother last year!

I too have found a man at work who knows about this stuff, is horrified about it and keeps talking about it. Was relieved that someone gets it. Hes bothered about sports and changing rooms/loos. He talks to others about it. Not sure they get it yet but he tries.
We are not alone. And PULL

Two people have brought it up with me in the last fortnight. In addition I had a conversation with one of my local parliamentary candidates which was quite illuminating (in a good way).

I get the "you're worrying to much" thing from my extended family. They mostly think its all bollocks but also that it can't really be so bad.

I also think if there are terms we shouldn't use here they really need to be posted, I wouldn't have known that was a no no.

The comments under the many articles in the Times have become increasingly assertive with as many male readers as women calling out the misogyny and dangers.
Jenni Russel's brilliant article attracted many hundreds of excellent comments. Share token for anyone who didn't see it first time round:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/politicians-are-betraying-women-in-the-rush-to-support-trans-rights-xzvhcf7m8?shareToken=265adaf26c9baae73b5982a0e5538212