Feeling optimistic: it is happening *title edited at OP's request*

[ApplePenPineapplePen]

I had lunch today with ex work colleague, he is approaching 50, no children, not someone I know really well, but we meet up every couple of years for a chinwag. He brought up the 'craziness of young people' these days, he looked nervous and I guessed where he was going. It transpired he has had his eyes opened, "that huge cyclist", played a part. The conversation continued and I threw in a few examples of the issues ongoing, the various womens' declarations/pledges, Stonewall's role...It was the first time I've come across a man apart from DH who felt comfortable expressing their GC views face to face in a public place although he trod warily at first until he knew my position. I really believe that this whole debate is coming more mainstream and in so doing, light will be shone on the illogical and dangerous positions that are being taken by public bodies and politicians. I keep trying to have these conversations but I can tell many in my social circle think I'm worrying unnecessarily and can't understand why I am so vocal. Anyway I wanted to share because today for once I feel optimistic that the tide will change.

My DH enlightened some people last weekend, and he's a fair bit older than 50.
This was in the pub, I nearly fell off my chair when he said penis

I remember, shortly after I joined the feminist board about a year ago (actually, less than a year!) I kept seeing the term p t and didn't know what it meant. So I asked. My question was answered and the term was used several times. There was even a thread titled that. I was not aware that it had suddenly and stealthily become taboo.

Both my kids and SIL are GC. Probably his parents are also slightly becoming aware; we don't talk about it but they have hinted.
Unfortunately, daughter's SIL is very very cool and hip and very protrans. We don't see her much. She's a nice woman and we all get along well so we just don't raise the subject.

A very pleasant Yorkshireman in his 30s opposite me on the train last week brought it up after only ten mins of conversation, in a similar way, testing me first!
I do raise it in conversation with people I know well. Some (my sister, my best mate at work, my aunt) were totally unaware and all are sporty so totally got it from that angle.
My DH called out some comments at work by some female colleagues supportive about male-bodied people competing in women's sports. He's a decent level sportsman himself in his field (he'd factually be international level if he was female but he's semi-pro as a man) so hopefully they may think he has a point. One of his sports friends brought it up with me sat at a wedding last month, too, without prompting, angry about sports (cyclists, rugby players and cricketers!)
The Times article really heartened me, doesn't feel like I'm screaming into the void any more, the comments on there made me keep going!

All my Gen X friends and family get it, the women especially. They can see that gender is the same as it ever was, oppressive, and that f*cking with gender, while fun and righteous, has nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

The older ones in my family think it's the new gay, and do everything they can to accomodate.

I cannot discuss with my children; they think I am a bigot T*RF who wants trans people dead. But dealing with the cognitive dissonance of knowing that nothing in their experience of me supports that characterisation.

I am hopeful of a young colleague, I have heard her correcting people when they have said gender meaning sex.

Nice little boost to free speech: www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/20/police-transgender-rules-breach-right-to-free-speech-court-told

I don't think the term peak trans is banned exactly, but it does attract attention from the monitors, so whenever it is used your post is flooded with reports. So you're better off avoiding it.

The monitors will use any excuse to abuse the report function.

The whole matter came up at the weekend with friends. It did lead to me trying to explain the difference between sex and DSD ...as DSD are not evidence of a sex spectrum .

Thank you for sharing uncompromisingwoman, superb article and fantastic to see. Explains how so many feel but are too worried to say

This is not an ideology that can withstand scrutiny, hence "no debate". Well, it's getting some scrutiny now!

To the extent that the general public ever thought it agreed with trans activism it was mostly because most people didn't understand what it would mean and what the goals were. The single hardest part of talking about this irl has been convincing people that you're not mad and not only might the things you're worried about happen, they already have happened. So you'll have a conversation about toilets and changing rooms, and it will be obvious that someone is assuming that the only people given access to the women's spaces will be gay and will no longer have a penis, and then you point out that that's not true and isn't the policy at all, and then the other person says "oh they'd never allow that". And then you have to prove to them that yes, they do, and it's already happening.

This is why the "avoid the media" advice to TRAs exists. They know as well as we do that once the general public understand what it is that's being demanded they'll be horrified.

Bring on the media coverage!

I, err, led two friends out of the foothills (to paraphrase HHJ Knowles) last week in a conversation about this - I told them what started as a funny story of my mum suddenly becoming a militant feminist writing to M&S over their changing rooms travesty after I told her about it (true) and that led on to them both agreeing that women should be able to talk openly about this stuff, that transwomen taking part in female sport is wrong and that women should have single sex spaces.

Yes, the M&S changing room chat led to me talking about it to 3 separate work colleagues recently, who are all parents. The male colleague was especially wtf until I showed him some articles on FPFW.

A female friend on FB posted an illustrated piece yesterday about:
'Women are women regardless of sex' 'you can be both' etc, etc. She said how nice it was. The likes - over 30 of them were all from women. She usually gets mixed sex responses.

A male friend on FB posted that piece about a university cancelling a feminist artist because of 'transphobia'. Only men responded to this post - he usually gets mixed sex responses - and they all hinted that it was unfair, bad, but they couldn't say more.

The contrast between the two were stark and sad. Women are so nice they are rushing to give away our rights and protections. Many men do understand this, and some are understanding this before women.

It annoys me greatly, but this is what I'm observing around me.

A dad at the school drop off brought it up with me the other day.
I don't know him and it really struck me how confident he was to assume he could talk about it and that the reaction to his statement was immaterial.

Women are so nice they are rushing to give away our rights and protections.

Sadly this is my experience. The men I know get it, but it doesn't really affect them. I know a few lesbians and they are also fully on board with TWAW. I can't understand it.

Women are so nice they are rushing to give away our rights and protections.

this is why i think this issue is about common sense, free speech
,parents right, freedom of religion issue not just feminist issue.

'male always~~~'

i don't think it's male's fault.
it's cheating males fault. blame all men about this is bad strategy.
large portion of pp who think this all @##@ is man.
that's our alley.
and large portion of woman proudly shouting 'twaw'.

from my notion.

i dont think 'this is all mens fault or that all men cheat' is what anyone sensible would argue.

It annoys me greatly, but this is what I'm observing around me.

Me too.

I think women are in many cases more inclined to be up to date on social and language trends, and that might be part of the reason.

Something I noticed that struck me as related, here in Canada during the election, the Green Party leader, Elizabeth May, very proudly posted how Green Party membership was now more than half women, more than any other party. (I think it was 60%) This right at the time that they wholeheartedly embraced identity politics and gender ideology into their platform.
It seems like women are generally more likely to support the ideas labeled as progressive. I'm not convinced its that women feel like they have to be more caring or vote against their own interests, I think they are driving a lot of what is going on.

I should add, that is in some countries, in the US I am not sure if that holds true.

@Helmetbymidnigh

yes...
but when i read 'always men invade women's space..'
i'm worrying pp think it's just internal feminist issue or radical feminist issue and turn it off.
"oh, they blame us!"
(sadly mainstream libfem are there so it doesn't looks like all feminist issue
neither...)

it's really big thing i think.
free speech, safeguading children, school curriculum, freedoms for faith...and freedom freedom freedom!

Today I visited a friend who has close contact to a retreat centre. After a while she mentioned that a group of 21 people, "creatives", had come for a retreat; they were all transitioning or had transitioned, and insisted on being called they or by the correct pronoun. All were under 30 -- my friend is in her early 70's, but totally open minded as she is herself an artist. She said it was so exhausting and very frustrating. Of course that was the opening and she turned out to be as GC as me - though not on MN, she know about convicted male sexual offenders in women's prisons, is horrified about the transing of children, and so on. I was able to bring her up to date on the Fair Cop trial, but otherwise she was totally on board, despite (deliberately) not being on social media.
Sunlight is everywhere!

”although he trod warily at first until he knew my position.”

What a number we’ve all had done on us.

Thank goodness it is on the way to being acceptable, even if we’re not completely there yet.

She said it was so exhausting and very frustrating.

Yeah, i don't get where this business about "it's so easy" that you hear comes from. When you have multiple people needing you to remember special requirements about address it quickly becomes overwhelming. Like being at some sort of conference of international diplomats all with different titles and forms of address.

It's not easy at all. Not only are you meant to remember each individual person's preferences, complete with baroque pronouns in some cases, but you have to mentally stop and override what you automatically feel like you should say and have been socialized to say all your life each and every time. And even if you want to comply you're going to slip up occasionally and then get stropped at and potentially be subject to disciplinary measures. It's a huge burden to place on people.