Detransition the Elephant in the Room - Update!

[DJLippy]

The Detransition Advocacy Network was established to support people who have stopped or reversed gender reassignment.

To celebrate its launch, Make More Noise will be hosting an event discussing the ethics of the social and medical transition of gender non-conforming women and girls.

Featuring talks from professionals working in the field followed by a panel discussion of detransitioned women talking about their experiences.

UPDATE! NAME OF FIRST SPEAKER ANNOUNCED

Susan Evans is a mental health nurse and psychotherapist who resigned her position at the Tavistock clinic over concerns that hormones were being prescribed to vulnerable children without due care. She is seeking to bring a legal case to the courts which will establish that children cannot give their informed consent to radical experimental medical treatment.

Tickets available here www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/detransition-the-elephant-in-the-room-tickets-73966390465

Apparently Stella O'Malley incorrectly self diagnosed with gender dysphoria but no teenager is doing that now

Not according to the panel of speakers; one of who mentioned how young people are now turning up at GIDS, or at their GP, already having socially transitioned; and at ever younger ages, sometimes with the full co-operation the parents and/or the child's school.

The de-transitioned young women on the panel spoke, also, of how they self diagnosed through viewing content on social media and the internet, and how this ten led them to professional services -where a policy, and culture, of positive reinforcement is already in place.

What was most glaringly obvious, in the stories of two of the young women ( both of who had had not only double mastectomies, but hysterectomies and ovariectomies too.....), was how their previous experiences of anorexia ( one of them almost to the point of death) segued into their desire to transition - and how the feelings towards their bodies were exactly the same in both cases. That medical professionals had not picked up on this, and been alerted, is alarming.

The likely narrative being spun is that the anorexia was in itself a symptom of gender dysphoria, and that transitioning would solve the inner conflict and turmoil, by aligning these young people with their 'true' nature. Which of course it doesn't, and it doesn't!

What these young women needed was to come to terms with being masculine girls, and their emerging lesbian sexuality.

A number of older trans identifying men were in the audience - and it struck me very forcibly just how wide and 'catch-all' an umbrella trans is these days. These men were on a different planet to the young women on the panel - and coming from a very different place.

A certain pal of the board is handing out tin hats about this event

Can you elaborate? Which board?

It was also discussed how 'puberty blockers' is a complete misnomer, and a total under-estimation of what is being given. "Puberty blocker' suggests, simply, that puberty is blocked, or the 'pause' button pressed for a little while. However, the truth is that these are powerful hormones which effect one's total bodily system - and in, as yet, unknown or unmeasured ways.

The total experimental nature of the trans project is very evident. Driven by the availability and development of pharmacology and technology. Reminds me very much of a book I read earlier in the year 'Crazy Like Us' - about how American pharma 'exports' various mental health conditions around the world, complete with ready made 'solutions', into places and cultures in which those conditions had not previously existed.

Sorry, this board, has come here occasionally. Harvests screen shots. Reckons the event was all 'very fishy.'

The self diagnosis thing - I was listening to the file on four documentary and a GIDs clinicians speculated that ROGD is due to better awareness and better referral; my feeling - especially after reading detrans experiences- is that it's assumptive self diagnosis due to online social media access and general media coverage of the stunning and brave and I'm now fixed variety.

Sorry, this board, has come here occasionally. Harvests screen shots. Reckons the event was all 'very fishy.

Still a bit cryptic.....?

is that it's assumptive self diagnosis

Surely it is the 'suffering' individual, alone, that can diagnose -since a 'trans identity' it is based entirely on personal feelings. Once young people arrive at GIDS they are always positively confirmed, no questions asked apart from, "For how long have you realised that you were assigned the wrong gender?", sort of thing.......

They have to spin it that way though. It's filed under 'things that never happen'.

Yes, self- diagnosis is the first step. Whether from the Internet, peers, or older trans identified/queer 'mentors'.

Once they go to the GP for an onward referral, the story is in place, the history has likely been revised to 'prove' the self-diagnosis, and the script has learnt by rote.

This isn't to be mean to distressed youngsters - they are often desperate. It's just the identity and ideology is moulded to fit the trauma.

Sorry, Prior... rather a long tantrum.

Yes I'm being harsh- in emotional pain, "not fitting in" and searching for answers on the internet. "Oh this fits me!" Certainly how some have explained it.

A number of older trans identifying men were in the audience - and it struck me very forcibly just how wide and 'catch-all' an umbrella trans is these days. These men were on a different planet to the young women on the panel - and coming from a very different place.

Yes. It seems to me that having single terms to describe both experiences isn’t appropriate. Whatever it is that afflicts middle aged men causing them to embark on physical transition absolutely is not the same thing that is currently affecting adolescent girls.

Both panels were marvellous. The second one made me cry.

I doubt it’s possible for that back row of sour faces to allow themselves doubt at what they’ve helped to do. Perhaps the inevitable future lawsuits will make them rethink?

I'm not on twitter, myself, but I understand some people are suspiciously questioning the whole event ( of course, they would); suggesting that there were no trans people on the panel - when, of course, it was about detransition, and there were 8 detransitioners who spoke, including the founder of Manchester detrans.

Apparently there has been a 4000% increase in the number of young women referring themselves to GIDS.......and yet there has been no research or follow up on what happened to them - which is negligent in itself.

Some of the panel mentioned how difficult it was to fully detransition socially - as they had created new names for themselves, adopted & 'policed' their new pronouns, and had invested lots of time and energy in 'being trans' to all and everyone; plus the fact they had been on testosterone for a number of years and had undergone radical hysterectomies meant that they were left with facial hair and deep voices.........

The numbers of young detransitioners is increasing all of the time, and we also see many older trans people who had undergone radical surgeries saying they regretted ever having undergone them. The mental and emotional issues that drive someone to declare themselves trans remain after transition; or else so much is invested in 'being tran's as a solution to personal issues, that it is difficult to fully accept or even acknowledge that transiton has not been the magic bullet.

It was very telling how the trans community turns its back on detransitioners, and even going as far as denying their experiences were valid in the first place. Obviously, to accept that people who have experienced gender dysphoria often detransition, would also mean that the idea that one can be born born in the wrong body, and have some sense of an innate 'gender identity' is a pile of poo.

It's like leaving a cult. You are disowned forever, and the cult closes ranks to re-assert itself.

I agree, it is a cult. Those who have the strength to leave it are vilified, their views rebranded as meaningless and all previous community support is withdrawn.

mobile.twitter.com/SportIsARight/status/1210643998769111042
Didn't want to start a new thread but wanted to share this.It's denying the existence of detransitioners.

From that twitter thread:
So, if you'd kindly, shut the fuck up about de-transition rates as a reason NOT to treat trans kids with gender-affirming care that experts all agree is appropriate.
It's >1600x LESS frequent than regret for breast augmentation...and none of y'all screaming about THAT.

IANAD, however the first thing that jumps out at me is children are not getting breast argumentations so why is this relevant?

Ah, that's the cyclist formerly known as McKinnon. I'm blocked, could you post a screenshot of the tweet?

strangely I was blocked from that tweet.
Tis ever the same

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Here's the methodology for the study that reports a 0.27% detransition rate:

An anonymous survey was sent to all surgeons who registered for the WPATH conference in 2016 and USPATH conference in 2017. We asked respondents to report the number of patients encountered who expressed regret or sought detransition, the characteristics of the patients, surgical history, reasons cited for detransition, and whether any reversal procedures were performed.

I'm no medical researcher, but I think I can spot the flaw in that statistic.

Thanks! Now, I wonder where 'Ivy' got the statistics from. I was reading something recently about a study that found very low detransition rates... because it was studying current patients from a gender clinic. Pretty meaningless.

Judging from the amount of detransitioners on Twitter, it is much higher than 'Ivy' claims.

Yes.

It’s making the assumption that every patient who detransitons or desists will report back to their original gender clinic despite no existing mechanism for doing so, let alone an incentive.

I know for one my husband has reported back to NO ONE that he completely desisted from a trans identity after being on hormones for 2 years.

They clearly did not employ at statistician on this paper. GIGO all the way.