I've just told LibDem canvasser to sling it!

[maeb]

I've just told a Lib Dem canvasser to stay away from my home as I will never vote for a party that undermines women's rights. He tried to ignore me as he swerved to get off my path so I shouted after him if he agreed with Jo Swinson that women could have penises!

He muttered that I was anti-democratic, which is a bit rich considering they want to ignore the referendum completely.

I'm now cringing...

Neighbour's probably think I'm mad!

I doubt we'll see any canvassers here. I have the impression they get shipped off to campaign in marginal constituencies. I live in one where the Labour vote could be weighed rather counted so my vote will make no difference at all. No idea who to vote for. Will study the list of candidates with interest when it comes out in a week or two. I'm hoping for a promising-sounding Independent but we haven't even had one of those recently. The Realist Party put up someone in one recent General Election but when I looked them up they turned out to be somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun so that's no good.

It’s not antidemocratic to want to remain in the EU.

The most democratic course of action is debatable, but in my view would be a second referendum.

*I'm a depressed remainer but what depresses me even more than Brexit is the idea that it's ok to ignore referendums (yes I know it wasn't legally binding) and to sneer at the views of 17 million people. But it does help me understand how we got into this mess in the first place.

Anyway back to the thread and good for you op.*

Indeed!! Completely agree @Floisme

As for the 'reasoned debate' angle, the LibDems aren't exactly encouraging that. You'll have seen no doubt that a prominent GC feminist wrote to them to explain her position on gender ideology and she asked if they would feel able to have her as a member. They said no they wouldn't. What a missed opportunity and what an incredible miscalculation. Hard line gender ideologues are a tiny band of fanatics. People with some doubt about the wisdom of mixed sex sport, loos etc and putting gender nonconforming children on puberty blockers etc etc are most of the population.

Ooh I love taunting Lib Demmers, I say 'I am only talking to you if you want to bring back the death penalty' and watch them fuck off. They don't bother me much now I'm in Germany.

However, it was a democratic vote.

No vote where the majority were ill-informed and grossly manipulated by people who didn't have their best interests at heart can be described as genuinely democratic.

As Nigel Farage is so desperate to avoid a 2nd referendum, I would assume that a more democratic vote, in which people had a better understanding of what they were choosing, could be expected to have a different result.

I think immediate damage limitation by withdrawing Article 50 is the first priority and the longer conversations around women's rights should follow closely behind.

Well said Maeb!

I'm not sneering at the 17 million. Worth remembering there were another 16 million + who didn't vote at all, so it wasn't really 52 48 Leave Remain, more like 34 Leave 33 Remain 33 Don't know and that's before we take into account the EU citizens living here who couldn't vote and the British expats who couldn't vote either.

If the Remain campaign had been better, that would have helped. I liked this when I saw it on Twitter earlier: twitter.com/i/status/1193640319667130369

I had a Lib Dem canvasser at my door last week too, I told him I would listen to his spiel if he could answer me one question - What is it that makes a transwoman a woman

I want to ask that question as well but we don't get people knocking. Might get a leaflet if we're lucky. Labour safe seat.

Russian involvement, "confirmatory" referenda, "gross manipulation". Are they running creative writing courses over on the Brexit echo chamber board? With the offer of a free crystal ball for the purposes of economic forecasting for every subscriber?

The parallels between the way Leavers and GC women are mischaracterised as ignorant, ill-educated bigots who oughtn't to be let loose with an opinion let alone a ballot paper are staggeringly similar.

So what are the reasons for voting leave then? I haven’t seen one that is not going to strip someone of their rights? Was it to withdraw healthcare and uprated pensions and free movement from some of us? The tories have already removed my vote, but if I could I would spoil it. None of the parties are listening to women.

Lang as always nails it.

I am always very suspicious of people who cannot give a reasonable account of the opposing view (whatever the issue and whatever the opposing view) without turning into either a straw man or a "well people think this way because they're thick/evil" travesty of the actual issues.

look while you disagree with party policy is it right to lambast a canvasser? You can just say you disagree & why without screaming at them - crikey I hate UKIP et al but I would be polite -

I wonder why people would want to derail this from a discussion of the LD position on GC women to a discussion of Brexit?

Truly mystified.

BovaryX, I expect it's because his penis and his youth shield him from most of the effects of Transgenderism upon society. His attitude was that we needed to prioritise sorting out Brexit. He was only focused on that one, single issue.

I wonder why people would want to derail this from a discussion of the LD position on GC women to a discussion of Brexit?

I feel like once anyone mentions Brexit, that's it, whatever was being discussed before will be lost and it will be Brexit this, Brexit that. I guess it's a topic that people feel so passionately about one way or the other.

Anyway, yes Libdems seem to be one of the worst parties for the TWAW stance and their public condemnation of gender critical feminists.

Bang 💥 and the dirt is gone

Sorry, wrong thread. I meant this for the BSAP thread.

The extent to which there was a democratic mandate since 2016 has somewhat withered since then. If the owners of Brexit have been unable to progress it since then, the opposers of Brexit are under no obligation to help them out.

I'd say give the problems it's possible to make a good case that it all needs to be looked at again, without it being a matter of not respecting the vote or what it meant.

But it might help people believe that if there was a sense that those advocating rethinking it all and staying in the EU would make some sort of real effort to understand sort out the problems that led to so many people wanting to leave.

What did he think was anti democratic about you not wanting to vote for the LibDems because you think their policies are shit? Pretty sure that's democracy working as intended, or at least it would be if there was a "recognizes that women exist and would really like to be legally acknowledged as existing" alternative.

Whilst I am entirely disgusted and disappointed with the Lib Dems and their throwing of women under the bus, I would also urge caution. When I read about women not having a political home and wanting to ruin their ballot paper my heart sinks. I think we have to take a long hard look at what will happen if we don't vote in the election - and I think the answer is nothing! I don't think enough women are aware of the "women problem" in the Lib Dems. I was talking about it to my Lib Dem supporting parents this weekend and they had no idea. I don't think we can change Lib Dem policy any time soon. BUT we can vote to get the Tories out and I think this is the priority. Whatever our personal feelings are on the matter, the election is going ahead and we will have to live with the consequences. For that reason, I would tell the Lib Dem candidates how disgusted I am with them on this issue - but still vote Lib Dem tactically if necessary.