Sexual assault in books: Philip Pullman [Contains spoilers - Edited by MNHQ]

[Loopytiles]

Previously enjoyed His Dark Materials, also the Book of Dust prequel, but was unsure whether the rape in Book of Dust was highlighting sexual violence, or gratuitous.

There is also sexual assault on the main female character, Lyra, in the new book. This time it did seem gratuitous.

A tutor, 11 years or so older than the Lyra, “falls in love” with her, and reminisces about her scent when he taught her.

This has brought to mind aspects of the first trilogy: a poster on another thread suggests that Lyra is a “Mary Sue”.

Wondering what others think.

The Malcolm infatuation with Lyra is ick, particularly the passages about his tutoring of her

I don't find it creepy nor did I find the Will Lyra ending creepy either.

I found it very interesting how he portrayed Lyra trying to become ' invisible' to avoid the male gaze

But it wasn't just to avoid the male gaze- it was every one and it was a technique she learned from Will.

You're right Carol, but it still had a very familiar ring to it.

Writing about a sexual assault gives an author a very quick way to change the character's (or readers') feelings about a person.

I'd say it was lazy rather than gratuitous. It comes up in the Sally Lockhart series a couple of times as well. Always well-written (or hinted at) but some of the later mentions seem more to move the plot along than anything else.

I agree that 20 to 31 isn't necessarily that big an age gap, but it might seem odder at universities — during my PhD my friends and I tutored first years, and we always jokingly called them our "baby biologists" or "little lawyers" or whatever, so we made a very clear separation, even though we were only 5 or 6 years older. Having said that, it depends what year the book is set, because it's only relatively recently my university published actual guidelines about staff/student relationships.

it might seem odder at universities

Maybe I went to the Sodom & Gomorrah of universities, but it was absolutely full of academics having relationships with students.

I've always felt uncomfortable about Pullman. So much so that none of my kids have read his books. All big fans of the genre so on the face of it, would be perfect for his books.

Never been able to clearly understand why, which is a shame as he had some amazing original ideas.

What point are you trying to make? Pullman created a terrific female character. If your comment this is some sort of smear attempt at him it is disgraceful

Carol I wonder if Pullman (hard to believe) lacked the awareness of issues for women about how they are written about to talk about why he, a grown man, specifically writes a girl character. ie a human being well outside of his experience - (which to me, as a grown woman who sees girls and women written about by men in uncomfortable ways all the time, is of interest to me to hear male authors talk about.)

Or is the failure to explore that point because that issue is known but he considers it not worth exploring or hopes not to draw attention to it? Why doesn’t Pullman think there is anything to explore around his use of a young female character?

If that is a genuinely held view then would seem like an author not doing justice to his female character creation as a fully rounded ‘person’, or being in reflective on his own role as an author with female readers. Either of which is disappointing to any reader who wants authors to be more than mechanical puppeteers sketching out plot points.

I’ve not read loads of Pullman or loads about him but he clearly sets up a political stall, so I’d be interested to know his take on sex/gender/sexuality issues. Particularly as he is an author who became famous due to a female characterisation, Lyra.

All authors write about whatever they want, including lives they can never live, that’s a great thing about creativity- but I am always interested to hear them discuss what they write about and why. So it seems odd that this area got no exploration in the piece whereas the anti organised religion stuff was fully explored. (There was some great archive used in the documentary by the way and it’s very worth watching.)

But you know, perhaps a BBC editor cut out a whole interesting bit of discussion that was had....

I’ve not read loads of Pullman or loads about him but he clearly sets up a political stall, so I’d be interested to know his take on sex/gender/sexuality issues. Particularly as he is an author who became famous due to a female characterisation, Lyra

I have no idea what Pullman's take is on sex/gender/sexuality is. Personally I think it is bizarre that you would think it is particularly relevant to an author who was writing a fantasy world for children, which is what HDM was. I expect this area got no go as it was neither interesting or relevant and frankly if anything is creepy or inappropriate it would be requiring Pullman to discuss his take on these issues.

Carol What point are you trying to make?

What makes you uncomfortable, Tilder?

A sexual assault in a children's book?! Who is this prequel aimed at?

They are all books for older DC, and also have a big adult audience.

There was reference to past rape of an adult character in the Amber Spyglass. Rape of a teen character in Book of Dust. And sexual assault on the 20yo lead character in the latest one, Secret Commonwealth.

Just found an online review where the reviewer, Constance Grady, while overall positive, seems to have similar misgivings to me about the Malcom/Lyra infatuation and the assault. Lots of spoilers! [[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/culture/2019/10/3/20893424/secret-commonwealth-review-philip-pullman-book-of-dust-his-dark-materials]{

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/culture/2019/10/3/20893424/secret-commonwealth-review-philip-pullman-book-of-dust-his-dark-materials

Sounds like Pullman has a familar recurring theme. I know they're aimed at older children but i'd probably want to read that particular chapter before my teenager to see how it's handled and what the aim of including it was.

In the Book of Dust much of the book concerned a very nasty villian chasing two teens, to get to baby Lyra. General threat. There was v little more about the character assaulted afterwards, in the Secret Commonwealth she appears as a housekeeper and speaks of her experience in a factual way to Lyra.

In secret commonwealth the message just seems to be that solo travel is dangerous for women.

I'm also uncomfortable about the Malcolm/ Lyra pairing, (and I think Pullman must be too, which is why he's made Malcolm such a thoroughly Good Egg), but I don't think the sexual assault was gratuitous. She's travelled alone for so long, it would seem too fairy-tale if she emerged unscathed, I think.

Also, I think it's implied that the assault is partly due to her lack of a daemon. She is less than and Other: like the Tajik's (sp?) she meets afterwards.

What I really enjoyed about the book is Pullman distancing himself from intolerant sceptics. Through Pantalaimon's view of Brandt, he implies that the views of ultra-rationalists Dawkins are not his views. All the stuff about using only one part of your intelligence, rather than also using your senses/ imagination/ emotion.

Found that very satisfying to read.

Sorry, seen as less than and Other.

I found all that obvious, clunky and dull. Ditto the politics.

Fair play, different strokes. I enjoy eloquent expressions of ideas I intuit but can't always adequately express.

I think Pullman is a master at that.

You said it better than I could, MilesJupp

7Days I see what you did there.

I've always found it difficult to put my finger on Loopytiles. I read a lot of this genre, and did as a child. Pullman is the only author who gives me the sense of unease.

I guess, a lot to do with how innocence is portrayed. As if the daemon is a physical expression of that innocence.

Then again, I haven't read the books or heard him in interview for years!

I share the sense of being a bit creeped out. I also felt it in the first trilogy... maybe it’s a middle aged man trying to convey the sexual awakening of a young girl... especially as they really are children in His Dark Materials. I wonder how different it would be if Pullman had a female editor rather than a similarly aged man.
Michael Sheen’s audiobook reading was absolutely stunning, though.

SPOILERS

I thought the addition of Lyra of Lyra telling Farder Coram that she and Will didn't have sex (and that their ages were increased slightly) was interesting and was Pullman distancing himself from the criticism that he had too young children having sex.

I kind of feel sorry for PP. On one hand I agree that there is the odd clunky bit where he doesn't get being a young woman right. But on the other hand we do need major male authors writing female lead characters because there aren't enough and across the series Lyra is a complex, flawd and fully realised character and there is the depth of complex female characters that is rare, particularly in books written by men. I'd rather have the few clunky bits (and as a PP said a female editor would help with that) amongst the highlights than not.

TBH the bit that jars the most for me is Lyra's idealised love of Will from childhood continuing into her 20s and Malcolm is clearly suppose to be very Will-like with his cat dæmon and his ability to fight and his intelligence and kindness so when she fallsin love with Malcolm it's just a way of still being in love with Will. It feels a bit Marianne and Colonel Brandon as well.

Me too, @tilder, although I did read the first trilogy to the end, so it couldn't have been that bad. But yeah, left me feeling a bit creeped. I'm okay not reading anything else by him.