Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

So, I got an email about a comment in which I said that I wanted to know why genderists keep comparing trans identified males to black women and lesbians being deleted. I think this is absolutely barmy, and have said so to HQ. I'm also baffled as to how this breaks any guidelines and thought perhaps it was time for us as a group to revisit the guidelines and explain once more to MNHQ why they're not working.

What's actually happening here is the the obsessive trans activists who monitor this site are attempting to pick off posters one by one. We lost Orchid last week, and she was just the most recent of many. I'm not sure in MNHQ realize that's happening and welcome it or if it's somehow escaped their notice, but it's a pretty messed up thing for them to be allowing to happen to their users, in my opinion. Are they going to allow this to continue until the only commenters left in this forum are the TRAs who want the entire site shut down?

I know the people who despise the women here would very much like this to all happen under the radar, and that's exactly why I'm not allowing it to play out that way.

Agree ProdigalKitten, that's why it is so sad.

Women are literally being written out of the picture, our material and physical reality replaced with a thought in some men's heads. And lots of women are complacent and unbothered about this.

As rancourous as I may seem sadness is my main takeaway too. MNHQ seem to have decided to capitulate, and that's profoundly sad (and at odds with Justine's public position, which was a far more admirable one).

MNHQ should ponder why they are having to think so carefully about how women speak about men on this site.

I am willing to bet that absolutely none of the women here go to trans forums and tell men off for transwomaning wrongly. Getting them suspended for using uncivil tones towards women etc etc.

Women only talk about this issue once it starts affecting them.

I have never once tried to interfere with what happens on any trans forum, because people have the right to speak even if I think they're wrong.

Since we're all sharing, what I'm expecting out of all this is that I'll get a message letting me know that as I don't seem happy with how things are being run this clearly isn't the place for me and it's time for me to "go well", and that I'll then find myself unable to log in because I've been banned

Yes, we’re pretty clear now on what ‘go well’ means.

Just adding my belated 👏👏👏 to TalkingintheDark for that amazing post.

Talking BRAVA and thank you. Very clear, concise, readable and true. Perhaps someone should tell our wokeademic darlings

Well said @TalkingintheDark. This ‘both sides’ crap needs to be called out. Also, breast binding is self-harm. Any mother of daughters, or a teacher (I am both) has witnessed the rise of self-harm in girls. Let’s stick to material reality and focus on the genuinely oppressed, rather than those with narcissistic personality disorders who are destroying women’s hard won rights.

Another one belatedly thanking Talking for an amazing post, in which there was no hate. Just truth.

Another point if MNHQ are still reading. The tone of messages received by users when signed MNHQ rather than Hebe or Michael or whatever is noticeably more nasty than when from a person who actually signs their name (I will admit that I responded in a similarly unfriendly way this time, because I was so annoyed). I'm not sure if this is because in those cases the mod team know full well that the decision they're making isn't fair and is likely to upset the user, or if it's baby mods who're still learning to process not using their own names yet, but if it's the latter I'd really suggest having the training wheels part of the process of onboarding new people happen on something other than FWR or AIBU, because not only is that likely to upset users, it's really not fair to the baby mods either to throw them in at the deep end, especially on evenings and weekends when there's likely to be a lack of more experienced people to appeal to for support.

That's interesting. I just assumed the snotty ones signed MNHQ were from either Justine or a supervisor that the mod had kicked the can on to.

Best post ever talking in the dark.

The email to me, where I quoted a post, and the quoted post was put in the email as the thing that broke guideline, was signed MNHQ.

The quote was fairly innocuous - I'm guessing deleted for "generalisation".

However, when these rules were introduced, we were assured that we wouldn't get strikes for quoting posts. Yet I got a strike.

Wow Talking amazing post. Thank you

Surely it is obvious to everyone by now that MNHQ do not "walk their talk".

I am willing to bet that absolutely none of the women here go to trans forums and tell men off for transwomaning wrongly. Getting them suspended for using uncivil tones towards women etc etc.

Absolutely I'm sure they don't. And if they tried, no notice would be taken of them.

Totally brilliant post, TalkingintheDark!

There are individuals who feel/believe that they should be amputees. It is treated as a mental health issue.

Why are we not amputating the limbs of individuals who believe they ought to be amputees?

Why are we excising healthy tissue from healthy bodies just because the individual wants us to? Why are these people not in therapy? Why are we letting it happen to children?

When a pre-teen, my dd cut off a massive hank of her hair. The school had me in and accused me of allowing dd to self-harm. If cutting her own hair is self-harm, then arranging for the removal of healthy tissue is extreme self-harm, it really is.

Why are we not allowed to talk about it?

I'm on my second strike and I only know why for one of them (I asked as no reason given in the deletions). What I said was medically correct and factual, just not "nice" I guess.

MNHQ are under an eyewateringly relentless attack every day. I wouldn't be surprised if the mods have been personally targeted as well.

I'm trying to take the long view that every day brings more sunlight and the deletions are the death throes of the TRAs trying to drag the covers back over.

I'd not be a MN mod for all the tea in china.

Maybe Mumsnet could read the strangulation during sex threads and also the threads about men who justify murder (and get away with it) by claiming their female partners asked to be sexually tortured to death.

That might help them see what feminists here are actually fighting against and why we need to keep the term "woman" meaning female and nothing else.

The whole thing is incredibly depressing. We are being subjected to societal gaslighting and coercive control. We are not allowed freedom of speech. Our sex based rights are being eroded. Organisations that were set up by women for women (eg Mumsnet and Women’s Aid) are letting us down.

Women are literally being written out of the picture, our material and physical reality replaced with a thought in some men's heads. And lots of women are complacent and unbothered about this.*

Yet if it were any other group in society being treated this way, women would be up in arms. Women need to STOP expecting men to treat them like shit and accepting it as a crap part of life. Women need to fight for ourselves!

Bold fail!

I read this entire thread last night (and a few others throughout the day) , it was incredibly eye opening, of course I knew womens rights were being squashed but I wouldn't of been able to clarify how. Now I can and I will. Thank you to every woman on this thread and all the others I read yesterday for being so eloquent and thought provoking, thank you for being brave and persevering despite the constraints placed upon you.

I barely popped my head into the feminism section before yesterday and knew little of the issues women are currently facing. I will be a daily lurker from now on and hopefully once I have educated myself further I can contribute.

You are amazing women who have inspired me to take a stand, please never give up.

Wow, I really didn’t expect that response to my post last night! Am somewhat gobsmacked. And very glad that it resonated with so many people. Thank you for all your lovely responses and yes, please do feel free to share on Spinster and elsewhere - I’m very honoured that you want to!

I am so proud to be a part of the MN FWR board. It is an amazing space, all the constraints notwithstanding, and that’s because of all the amazing women who post here. And all those who used to but no longer can.

A toast to all you wonderful Spartacus women, past and present!!

Talking