Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

So, I got an email about a comment in which I said that I wanted to know why genderists keep comparing trans identified males to black women and lesbians being deleted. I think this is absolutely barmy, and have said so to HQ. I'm also baffled as to how this breaks any guidelines and thought perhaps it was time for us as a group to revisit the guidelines and explain once more to MNHQ why they're not working.

What's actually happening here is the the obsessive trans activists who monitor this site are attempting to pick off posters one by one. We lost Orchid last week, and she was just the most recent of many. I'm not sure in MNHQ realize that's happening and welcome it or if it's somehow escaped their notice, but it's a pretty messed up thing for them to be allowing to happen to their users, in my opinion. Are they going to allow this to continue until the only commenters left in this forum are the TRAs who want the entire site shut down?

I know the people who despise the women here would very much like this to all happen under the radar, and that's exactly why I'm not allowing it to play out that way.

I think she meant some posters figure they'd rather be hung for a sheep than a lamb.

Yeah, I'm pretty much done with this derail. The thread didn't seem intended to be goady, binding is just a feminist issue that feminists will want to discuss. Especially when the issue in question is being shoved in the faces of their children.

I think it's worth remembering that misogynists see feminism itself as inherently goady, because from their perspective everything is fine and why can't women just shut up and stop causing trouble by starting arguments about their perfectly natural desire to use and control us? Effective political speech is always going to be seen that way be the group whose behavior it's challenging.

Because pp's asked when i responded to the creator of that thread lang? It's a recent example of a deletion, posters felt it was unjustified and I did not given the circumstances and the nature of that thread. I felt it was goady. I've explained why I think its understandable to be goady but how imo that feeds into a continuing cycle of deletions.

It wasn't goady. It was an important thread about breast binding being shown on a major CBBC show. One term (self harm) seemed to be at issue here - and whilst using that term may be arguable for some, ad bear discussion, it was not worthy of deletion of the whole thread.

I feel your posts belittling the harm that breast binding does is goady, personally. But I doubt I'd be able to get your posts deleted.

They obviously have some kind of goal in mind. But what is it?

I think the goal is to monitize the conflict without getting sued again.

So 'goady' in the context of this thread topic means what exactly? I mean, I've seen some pretty fucking goady threads started this past week and allowed to.m stand, threads that were absolutely designed to upset, wind up and piss the women here off. They had no constructive element, they were just jabs (goads).

But you seem to be suggesting that wanting to discuss a contentious issue from a feminist perspective is a goady thread, and I submit that you are basically telling the women here to shut about the really egregious elements of misogyny and patriarchy because to speak about them too bluntly is 'goady'. So you've essentially told us not to poke the bear, to speak soothing, naice words instead, and that is just leveraging female socialization and you can go whistle, tbh.

flushed feel free to try I think my post on page one or two could get deleted.

flushed feel free to try I think my post on page one or two could get deleted.

Talk about missing the point.

I recognise your posting style, did you used to be bespin?

The least Mumsnet can do is give us some information to help figure a way forward. And further to that we need dialogue and polls of the user base to agree to new guidelines
Back to the discussion, I agree with this post by genderfree. The guidelines are useless now, all the goalposts are constantly moving.
As FWR needs its own rules and regulations imo the only fair and just thing is that MNHQ tell users what the rule are. And the moderators need to follow them

Nah, we're not the report everything just cause you can types, soz.

Let's all report each other in a battle of who can get each other deleted the most, eh?

Or, we could have a discussion.

I don't think FWR does need its own rules, I think general talk guidelines should be quite sufficient.

Because pp's asked when i responded to the creator of that thread lang?

Right. So you commented, they asked, you responded. So let's say that - single, very small - aspect of an important thread about many issues has now been adequately addressed, shall we? The thread is about a lot more than that. I gave you an inexhaustive list just above there.

Yes, it is always so fascinating to observe the women here who are often repeatedly asking the mods not to delete the most obvious MRA/TRA trollery because we would much rather those that turn up to FWR based on our reputation as a nest of transphobia actually see for themselves the cacophony of frothing, disingenuous, bad faith, faux naive bullshit that passes for transactivism whenever it bumps up against no character limit and not quite such an easy ride in getting women to shut up. When we are allowed to answer. We didn't ask for T*rf to be banned, we haven't made any demands except to be able to acknowledge material reality and not be coerced into lying.

flushed no but I used to post in brexit a lot if you read the threads then i'd be similar. I NC but names are all alike - I'm the one that bangs on about brexit medication shortages which my partner is currently experiencing. Also posted here once or twice about placenta theory in relation to immune systems and how the impact of taking hormones hasnt been considered much. There's considerable difference between the sexes in terms of immune systems but we still don't understand them. (DP has an immune system based illness which is considered extremely rare so I spend a lot of time explaining immune sytems to doctors.)

lang and co dw I won't be a regular I just popped in as the thread was in active.

Huh, I wonder how it made it to active, there aren't that many comments.

I hope your partner's medication issue gets sorted soon, Hazardd.

I am guessing on of the mods decided they needed some praise, or failing that the women on FWR needed some criticism.

Is there any point to correcting typos when I will invariably make another? one, not on.

What ever happened to NetMums? Is it still going? They immediately disallowed anything other than positive affirmation of trans stuff. Hence loads of AGPs being on there when I last checked a few years ago.

I have no idea who the CEO is. They never make it into the papers, or indeed the public consciousness. And they ban you for swearing.

Their USP appears, to me, to be banal, copycat jibber jabber.

I'm sure they have good, supportive or funny threads somewhere - but I just wouldn't know 'cos you never hear of them.

Mumsnet, on the other hand, including, or maybe because of, FWR is never out of the news/social media. Because it's content is important, relevant, interesting and informed. Because of the relevant, interesting and informed women who generate it.

'Negative generalisations' being a cause for deletion will cause a problem on 99% of election threads and will mean they end up looking like swiss cheese.

Oops, silly me, that's not going to happen is it. It's just the feminists that must be policed

I think one sign that a society is misogynistic is that women's speech is constrained in a way that men's isn't. I think that women who have the desire to restrict other women's speech almost always have misogynistic motives for doing so, though they often won't admit that to themselves.

Yes, exactly.

So, are Mumsnet prepared to be the ones who capitulate to the TRAs, or will they stand firm and protect freedom to discuss issues and law changes that affect us?

At the moment, Justine is saying the latter, but the moderators are doing the former.

Yoohoo, MNHQ & Justine.
Any clarification for us on this?

Crikey, had to go to parents evening last night and have only just caught up. I had NO IDEA that it was remotely controversial to say that breast binding is self-harm. Of course it bloody well is, and we should be allowed to say that. Loud and clear. It is extremely harmful (one study showed that 97% of the female respondents experienced harm), and it is done by females to themselves. It is self-harm. And it only happens to us - women and girls, the female sex. It needs to be discussed on a feminism board. Anyway I've heard back from @MNHQ now who've said they're happy for me to re-post, but not to make it specifically about one individual (a female presenter on CBBC)