Jeremy Vine on C5 addresses the m&s changing rooms issue

[LeLyoness]

...and doesn't really address it. No joined up thinking here and a reluctance to discuss the issues relating to self id and its impact on women. Jeremy Vine makes the statement that trans women are women (10:14) and should be able to access female changing spaces already so, in the case of trans women, this is "not an issue" ie we're only discussing the impact on women of men who are dressed as men sharing a changing space. It would have been good to see where this discussion might have gone if it had just been pushed that bit further but it's like it was a complete blind spot for all those involved.

I find Jeremy Vine really frustrating on the issue and the BBC is unwilling to explore it in any depth.

@TulipsTulipsTulips I guess they're too scared

Someone like Posie is needed in those discussions.

JV “Transwomen are women!”

PP (or similar marvelous woman) marginal eye roll “They’re not though. In what way are they women?”

JV ....

I wonder how Jeremy would feel if a woman followed him around, going into the men's toilets ?

Another man showing he doesn't give a fuck about women

Simply exploring the ‘dressed as men’ stuff would have lead them down the path of questioning the sex and gender issue.

@Herocomplex Exactly! It came up via a caller who actually fitted bras at marks. But it didn't lead there, it didn't lead anywhere. The consensus amongst all in the discussion was that obviously none of the articulated concerns applied to trans women because they are women. End of. There was no ability/desire to connect the two lines of discussion

Jeremy Vine is always really weird when it comes to trans issues, he did the most fawning interview I have ever heard when a late transitioner (born male) was on his radio show a while back.

Why even bother covering the item if you don't have 2 people giving their differing tuppence worth about why it's important, etc??

D&I used to be such a benign idea. It makes me unfeasibly angry now.

I wonder how Jeremy would feel if a woman followed him around, going into the men's toilets ?

I expect it would make him feel uncomfortable, but I bet he wouldn't have the same kind of fear response a woman being followed by a strange man would have.

Jeremy loves trans women, he's always really sycophantic when he has a trans woman in his studio. He has two daughters, it really surprises me that men with daughters don't understand the issues.

Yes @BertsFriend - me too. Though in my experience they're also not always aware of them - another example of how it's specifically women who are being screwed over here

Matthew Wright was so much more GC.

@FilthyBiscuit he was! He wasn't so scared of speaking his mind

Ugh Vine was a sycophantic creep when Lees was on his radio programme a year or so ago. The man is awful. As deep as a puddle.

Message to Jeremy Vine
Here's something for you to think about.
From the M&S thread.
Exactly what kind of man WANTS to access spaces where women and girls are vulnerable? There are only three reasons: predation, fetish, or validation of their desire to present as a sexual stereotype of a woman

(Thanks to MrsSnippy)

Did you know men regularly apply for jobs that are advertised specifically for women?
It's called trying it on.

In the light of the M&S changing room fiasco it's very apt.
Don't you think Jeremy?

jeremy genuinely seems to think twaw.

hes not very bright.

Jeremy loves trans women, he's always really sycophantic when he has a trans woman in his studio

yy. theres something deeply conservative/m/c/little england about him which combined with his desire not to be makes him the exact type who'll fall for this shite.

the thing is, before this I always thought he seemed like he had his head screwed on and, most importantly, was fair - yet on this issue he doesn't seem to want to (or be able to) engage

Maybe you've hit the nail on the head there @Helmetbymidnight

I heard the fawning interview. They both seemed pissed off that the persons wife didn't accept the transition with joy.. the person felt very sorry for themselves

Interesting, because I watched the show on Friday and they did a quick (4-5 minute) segment on it and all the panel were against it and then Jeremy asked the audience to put their hands up if they agreed with the policy and not one single person did. The only person to defend the issue was Storm. There was a woman on the panel (can't remember her name) who said something and then Jeremy said something like "Well, Storm is the new generation of younger woke woman" or something like that (paraphrasing).

Oh it's that special hushed voice that drives me absolutely bananas! I shout at the radio. Grumpy old woman

The problem is how wilfully blind they were to concerns re the self id issue, brushing that aside and reducing the debate to being about 'men dressed as men' in women's changing rooms

Would Jeremy Vine date a TW with a penis?

To be fair, he was on the spot during a call in and probably trotted out a party line but...I wish he was aware of or would address the complexities behind this issue rather than brush over them and effectively whitewash them