Jeremy Vine on C5 addresses the m&s changing rooms issue

[LeLyoness]

...and doesn't really address it. No joined up thinking here and a reluctance to discuss the issues relating to self id and its impact on women. Jeremy Vine makes the statement that trans women are women (10:14) and should be able to access female changing spaces already so, in the case of trans women, this is "not an issue" ie we're only discussing the impact on women of men who are dressed as men sharing a changing space. It would have been good to see where this discussion might have gone if it had just been pushed that bit further but it's like it was a complete blind spot for all those involved.

Of course he doesn’t believe it, not if he’s faced with the likes of Karen or Danielle following his young daughters into the ladies loos

Trans in a man's body...does he even hear himself? 🤦🏻‍♀️

Disappointed in him, normally think he is quite fair

But wrong on this one

In a random act of rebellion (against what I am not sure) I used a men's toilet today.

The ladies one was closed, the disabled one occupied (and don't like to use that one, feels wrong) so I asked the lady in the queue behind me "I'm going to the gents" she says she'd stop any men going in. She did (she must be an MNer)

Two very grumpy men waiting when I came out

But why not? If men can use our spaces, maybe it should go both ways

(maybe I am just going slightly bonkers )

So Jeremy Vine,
if trans are allowed in any changing room they desire, then sex, as a protected characteristic (as stated in law - The Equality Act 2010) no longer exists.

I repeat,
Sex as a protected characteristic will no longer exist

Are you really OK with that?

Jeremy would not be followed into the toilets as Jeremy has a coterie of 'his people around him at all times during filming.

'trans in a male body' - arf - what is he trying to say?

Jenn Smith has a theory/revelation about the straight men who are most insistent that TWAW.

He says that they are often men who are interested in trans as a porn genre, typically because porn culture has made them fetishise the penis very heavily, and don't want to think of themselves as masturbating to gay porn.

Hence, TWAW.

It's horrendous that men would be so willing to sacrifice women's wellbeing and safety on the altar of their egos like that, but there's been so much evidence of men doing this in the past few years that it no longer surprises me. I'm inclined to trust Jenn Smith's insights.

I'm not quite sure why this theory came to mind just now but I'm going to drop it here anyway.

(MNHQ - Jenn Smith uses male pronouns by choice.)

I hate the hushed voice!

I think men who are very insistent like to keep at the back of their mind that it might just apply to them one day and they want to keep their rights open. Like poor people voting down tax breaks for billionaires because somewhere deep down they think, what about when I’m a billionaire? Also, a lot of white men really do think they are an exceptionally ill-treated group and most TW are white men, so, there’s that.

This doesn't surprise me at all as never forget JV got this programme because he allowed Matthew Wright to be kicked off his own show for refusing to apologise because someone on his show said that a trans woman was born male.

He has taken his 30 pieces of silve to dumb down what was at least (although I thought he as an arrogant male shit) show because MW investigated stories and had a wide range of knowledge.

JV is as thick as two short planks and is so embedded in the tiny world of white male privilege that he isn't even aware that they have issues about gender stereotyping and how awful it is but every day (that I have watched) he endlessly argues along the lines of charactures of male and female.

What is also cringeworthy is his smarmy patronising of Storm who is clearly more intelligent that him and better educated.

The show has also become extremely right wing with a much smaller number of panellist most of whom are just stupid talk show hosts who just talk over each other.

Its sort of like Gammon central, but obviously in the in house training at the BBC has worked and JV knows which side his bread is buttered on.

I was astonished in the news articles about Samira Ahmed court case about equal pay and the BBC (she is saying she is the equivilant of JV) just how much money he is paid for being a mediocre, white male reationary. www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/bbc-gave-jeremy-vine-100-000-top-up-deal-even-if-he-did-nothing-vfjdr0n6p

So we have this bizarre situation of unreconstructed white male reactionaries mouthing the trans line because it inflates their pay packet.

The funny thing is (NOT) is I thought the Wright Stuff was sort of trash tv until it became the JV show. I dont know which is worse, that JV is really that thick or that he thinks because it is C5 they have to dumb down the show.

And even worse apparently the show has increased viewing.

Everybody goes on about the problem with social media and its influences. Far, far more people are being influenced by this institutional throwbacks to little englanders that the main stream media feeds us every day.

That was really interesting info. I thought Matthew left, cos' he'd done it for practically 20 years &the early starts had finally got to him & his partner. I've been watching MW on and off for that long. I generally loved the show then, and would even record it. It has left a huge hole in my mornings, when not otherwise occupied.
I tried JV, for a bit, I found it very DF, small-minded & even childish. I cannot believe even more people are watching it with JV, don't like his approach trying to be down with the kids, and all things to everyone. I find his silly interjections whenever something serious cropped up.

And you are right the panellists are same old, same old.

Also getting the audience to put their hands up, how is that representative of anything in the country. More to the point are they at school?
I wish Storm had left with Matthew, she is fated for better things. But women still have to work harder and longer, to achieve what some people, mainly men & those with connections seem to get to virtually overnight (as their better talents (PR) merits bigger paypackets).

So is there anything stopping us from picking a date and all deciding to use the men's changing rooms at our local stores?

cantstopreadingthenews (that should be my name!)

here's a link at MW being kicked off for having principles www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/real-reason-matthew-wright-quit-12460227 and I saw more gossipy stuff elsewhere.

I know its silly but find in strange the same audience who like TWS enough to turn up are sitting through the JVS.

But worse that Storm should stick it out.

There was one week when the hosting was shared by Storm and Anne Diamond and loads of people said how much better it was with them. Sometimes it seems like JV has difficult with verbal comprehension and why he cant be bother to say hello to whoever is on the phone and be polite I dont know.

But you are right. It is childish. Just another privilege white male thinking he can go on being the spolt schoolboy of his youth.

It just seems that when it comes down to it most of the country just want somesort of nostalgia style programme about how good it was in the past.

(In terms of privilege apparently JV has now got so many other shows that they have to record part of the show before the broadcast start time so he can leave half way through to get to the BBC or where ever. There must be people in the media hoping to get a break that cant believe how the old boy network is still working so efficiently)

I think the question "in what way are they women" an earlier speaker mentioned is excellent as you can't answer that without resorting to outdated sexual stereotypes of the "s(he) likes stockings and butterfies" variety.

If anyone fancies a little bit of low key activism this weekend about the M&S changing rooms I have set up a little thread here:

M&S men's changing rooms this weekend?www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3737026-m-s-men-s-changing-rooms-this-weekend

Inspired by a Twitter post.