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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Simon Fanshawe calls for calm

87 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 04/11/2019 08:02

“There’s been an absolute sleight of hand and it’s got even worse with LGBTQIA Plus, and I don’t know if the joke works on paper, but I always say that, you know, they’ve turned one of the great passions of my life, which is fighting for lesbian and gay equality, into a slightly secure password on the internet."

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm?

OP posts:
thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 12:21

I suppose it will seem that way in retrospect, now we have a clear view of what was going on. All we knew at the time was that 'our' organisation was saying we needed to accept men who said they were women as women and that all our clever, more academic, more important lesbian leaders in Stonewall and other groups were just going along with it and expected us to do so too.

I think it's had a massively negative effect on lesbian women's confidence, unity and general well-being. As if we weren't second-class citizens anyway – and now the very organisations that were set up to support us and fight for us have betrayed us. So many women's centres, rape crisis centres, lesbian groups just rolled over and let men in.

There have been many, many times when I've wondered if I'm going mad because other lesbians who I thought were solid have kow-towed to transactivism and sought to persuade me that I'm the one with the problem. Fortunately now, partly thanks to this forum, GC lesbians are able to contact each other and support each other in the fight back and it doesn't seem so lonely. All the old local institutions where lesbians used to gather have gone. The lesbian-run cafe, the women's centre, the lesbian night at the local gay bar all gone because the T and Q folk muscled in and women fled. There are still lesbian walks and cafe nights and picnics and days out and gatherings, but all under the radar on closed FB or WA groups and all braced for the day a transwoman turns up.

Floisme · 04/11/2019 12:27

Thank you for your posts thatdamnwoman - compelling and depressing.
Are you any more optimistic about the LGB Alliance?

ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2019 12:31

Better to waste 3 years than to actually produce something damaging. The PhD supervisors were covering their own arses.

NonnyMouse1337 · 04/11/2019 12:35

Thank you thatdamnwoman for giving us an insight into what's been going on in Stonewall over the past decade or so.
Very infuriating how trans and queer ideology has been creeping in and pushing out ordinary lesbians and other GC people.
It would explain a lot for the mess we see now. To an outsider it seems like all of this appeared out if nowhere, but clearly it's been brewing for quite some time.

thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 12:37

Yes, absolutely, and I'm already a signed up and paid up member and look forward to attending a conference or event where I can meet more of my tribe.

I do think the tide is turning and I'm proud that it's here in the UK that we may be able to say no to the transactivist's demands. Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and parts of the US have thrown not just lesbians but women's rights under the bus. I'm close to retirement age and I can't tell you how depressing it is to be out fighting for fundamental women's rights again. I thought we'd got that done.

I hope that one day we can start to hold lesbian festivals, women's festivals, women's music events, women's nights etc again, as we used to, without the ever-present dread of being picketed or invaded by men.

TanteRose · 04/11/2019 12:58

The article by Simon Fanshawe is excellent and should be lauded in other mainstream media.

The posts by thatdamnwomen are extremely enlightening- thank you! Flowers

NonnyMouse1337 · 04/11/2019 13:02

It's definitely taken me by surprise. I'm 36 and I didn't think all the hard won rights by women before me would be so quickly rolled back!!

I still can't comprehend those women who are eager to throw away the rights and protections that belong to every woman for their own personal gain.

I'm very glad that we still have women like you around though, to learn about what's happened in the decades before us and roll up our sleeves so we can carry on the fight for those who will come after.

This board has been a great resource for women to share their experiences and wisdom with others. :)

realitycalling · 04/11/2019 13:11

A brilliant article and interesting insights thatdamnwoman . Thank you.

Well worth printing that out and giving to candidates seeking our votes.

Driechdrizzle · 04/11/2019 14:04

"all under the radar on closed FB or WA groups and all braced for the day a transwoman turns up"

In the same way as lesbians used to meet in the past, secretly and discretely. How awful to have to continually live with the fear that a male will try to muscle their way in to private lesbian space.

FadingStar · 04/11/2019 14:20

This reply has been deleted

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ScapaFlo · 04/11/2019 14:23

Blimey could you imagine saying what FadingStar just said even six months ago? Puulllll!

FadingStar · 04/11/2019 14:26

I fully expect to get a strike and then I shall rein it in for a bit. 🤐

Michelleoftheresistance · 04/11/2019 16:39

Excellent article. Very well explained and clearly laid out.

I find it very sad that we got to this point through thoughtless and well intentioned attempts to be kind, to those who saw it merely as weakness to manipulate and take advantage of. I'm starting to become allergic to the word 'kind' as it is so often said to rhyme with 'doormat'. And 'no boundaries allowed'.

Michelleoftheresistance · 04/11/2019 16:45

I realise it is now necessary to speak in extreme clarity for the benefit of those seeking to control women, and this is extremely difficult to do, so I will confirm HQ:

When I say:
*I find it very sad that we got to this point through thoughtless and well intentioned attempts to be kind, to those who saw it merely as weakness

I use the word 'those' to indicate specific people who did take advantage in pressing anti women policy as opposed to implying any generalisation.

VinandVigour · 04/11/2019 17:28

What a brilliant article by Simon.

I met him at the WPUK Brighton meeting and thanked him for being so brave, I was actually referring to him being at the meeting, it was unclear what was going to happen with another organisation at that point. He has gone from strength to strength since then.

I wonder if the dreadful violence from TRAs at Brighton will be seen as a bit of a turning point in years to come?

Thank you again Simon.

ChattyLion · 04/11/2019 17:45

Placemarking for later and happy that people are saying the article content is better than I feared ‘an appeal for calm’ would cover Smile

drum123 · 04/11/2019 18:06

Thanks for sharing this MrsSnippyPants, I've sent it to my MP.

aliasundercover · 04/11/2019 18:38

This is my favourite part:
The first campaign we took on was the age of consent which is all about men. The reason we chose the age of consent was it was such a fundamental symbol of inequality, but women wanted to get involved because they understood the common purpose, and one of them said to me rather sadly the other day that they set aside their concerns as lesbians to a certain extent because it was a bigger principle at stake which they knew they were part of and now she feels abandoned.

I could never present the case so clearly - well done Simon Fanshawe.

I met him a couple of times when I was at University, though at the time I'd never heard of him. He was a guest tutor for a few sessions, and he was excellent: friendly, informative, clever, funny - I wished I could have had him for a term or more.
On the remote chance that you're reading Mr Fanshawe, thanks very much for that and for this.

mcduffy · 04/11/2019 18:48

What an article. Nails it.

drum123 · 04/11/2019 19:14

Michelleoftheresistance, totally agree with your sentiment about 'kind'. I recently stood up to two men who were being idiots in different ways. Everyone else around was 'kindly' pointing out the flaws in their arguments and going down the rabbit hole of trying to persuade them they were wrong. I just said they were taking bollocks and refused to engage with them. They shut up. So empowering. Simon Fanshawe's article is the exact opposite of bollocks - wonderful to read it.

Ereshkigal · 04/11/2019 19:16

He nails it. Anyone that cannot see this is the outcome of self-id is either too distracted or purposely vindictive.

Yes.

ChattyLion · 04/11/2019 20:19

thatdamnwoman thank you for sharing that

Destinysdaughter · 04/11/2019 20:43

That was such a great article, I've asked my local Labour MP to read it. I'll be curious to see what the reply is...

Simon Fanshawe calls for calm
Antibles · 05/11/2019 02:12

Thank you Simon Fanshawe.

Degustibusnonestdisputandem1 · 05/11/2019 08:48

Excellent article, I'm tempted to post it on fb...