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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Simon Fanshawe calls for calm

87 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 04/11/2019 08:02

“There’s been an absolute sleight of hand and it’s got even worse with LGBTQIA Plus, and I don’t know if the joke works on paper, but I always say that, you know, they’ve turned one of the great passions of my life, which is fighting for lesbian and gay equality, into a slightly secure password on the internet."

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm?

OP posts:
dipstyque · 04/11/2019 09:31

It's very clear but because he says TWANW the whole thing will be dismissed as transphobic. It's all-or-nothing to the woke.

SisyphusRocks · 04/11/2019 09:32

I've been sharing it on several platforms (including Twitter) since early this morning and it's getting a lot of traction. I don't know how anyone could possibly think what Simon's said, isn't reasonable. No hate, just facts.

Wilmalovescake · 04/11/2019 09:40

What a brilliant article.
MNHQ please take heed!

starryeyedsnowgirl · 04/11/2019 09:41

Fantastic piece- so calm, measured and articulate. I find this whole thing so stressful- the inability to even discuss the issues without being branded a TERF. I will share this article. Thanks for posting it.

DeathBySnuSnu · 04/11/2019 09:50

Amazing article, thanks for sharing.

Floisme · 04/11/2019 09:53

I first read that as, 'Simon Cowell calls for calm' which was a little surreal. But great interview - thanks for the link.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 04/11/2019 09:53

Excellent article.

AutumnRose1 · 04/11/2019 10:07

To quote Macklemore 😂 - this is fucking awesome!

I’ve only just looked up the A. The “definition” is quite mad.

Datun · 04/11/2019 10:10

“In the early years of Stonewall, every defeat was a victory because what happened was that even though we got defeated in parliament, we gained public support. So, what happened with Section 28 was that we lost the battle, but we started to win the war for public acceptance.

Very interesting indeed. That's exactly what's happening now. The public are not behind the trans ideology. Which is why it's so shocking when services, retailers and MPs are.

But it looks as though it's a familiar phenomenon.

ChateauRose · 04/11/2019 10:13

I didn't realise that that there were people in the gay rights movement who had resisted trans being tacked on to LGB right from the start.

I don't suppose they wanted their movement hijacked any more than feminism does.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 04/11/2019 10:14

Yes, Datun, I thought the parallel there was very striking.

Callmejudith · 04/11/2019 10:27

This is amazing. How can any argue against it?

Herocomplex · 04/11/2019 10:30

It’s a category error anyway, T isn’t about sexuality. But I understand why groups might feel solidarity.

Silencedwitness · 04/11/2019 10:34

I was just coming on to post this article. It’s absolutely brilliant. Well thought out, calm and above all honest.

FilthyBiscuit · 04/11/2019 10:35

I wish I had the courage to share this to all my woke friends, how could they possibly disagree with such a reasonable argument. Simon Fanshaw played the long game with Stonewall and will do the same here. Fantastic article.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 04/11/2019 10:43

It is a good interview from someone who was involved in Stonewall from the start and understands what it was set up for.

I particularly like that he makes clear it was not about 'trans' people, that they were not involved at the beginning but tagged on later.

This is an important point given the habit of revising historical facts prevalent amongst trans privilege activists.

3timeslucky · 04/11/2019 10:45

Excellent article. Great clarity and insight. Thanks for posting.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2019 10:47

Excellent piece. Let's hope he gets listened to.
I'm sure he's very much aware he may get listened to with more respect than the women who've been saying the same things - that's not his fault.

breakfastpizza · 04/11/2019 10:55

Well done, Simon.

Nappyvalley15 · 04/11/2019 11:40

Fantastic article. Hope it gets widely circulated.

AnyOldPrion · 04/11/2019 11:44

“I particularly like that he makes clear it was not about 'trans' people, that they were not involved at the beginning but tagged on later.”

The attempts to revise history are deeply frustrating to me as I don’t know as much about any of these movements as I would like to.

So the claims are made and seem unlikely (trans politics was not even on the radar back then and that I am
sure of) but I recall the changing attitudes SF mentions.

It’s good to see those claims of having been integral refuted by someone that was there. Even lesbians were not involved, but were persuaded to join in. So were not even the first group Stonewall called to for help.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 04/11/2019 11:47

That is a fabulous piece of writing.

thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 11:48

ChateauRose, I know two lesbians who resigned from their regional Stonewall committee over the trans issue more than a decade ago. There was a transwoman on their regional committee long, long before the T was formally added to the LGB. There was also a non-binary man doing a PhD in gender studies who came to meetings and secretly recorded proceedings with the knowledge of the committee chair but not the ordinary committee members.

When my lesbian friends asked questions about what these trans and queer individuals were doing on an LGB committee they were talked down to and persuaded that they were being petty and unkind by the lesbians who chaired the committee and headed up the regional branch of Stonewall at that time. They received no support from the gay men on their committee and things were made so uncomfortable for them (in retrospect they were clearly gaslighted) that they resigned. They were both ordinary women and most of the committee was made up of academics and those working in public policy sectors and so on – ie, being on the Stonewall committee was a career move.

The non-binary gender studies student later gave a public lecture at at least one of the local universities in which he quoted the two lesbians questioning what T and queer people had to do with LGB issues and he used this to ridicule them and illustrate how lesbians were attempting to block the advance of trans and queer ideology.

The two lesbians he quoted were easily identifiable by anyone who cared to look a list of committee members. They only knew about the lecture and the secret recording when a someone who'd attended the lecture worked out who they were and contacted them to warn them what was going on.

They complained to the Stonewall committee: the chair just shrugged. So then they complained to his PhD supervisors who pleaded with them not to put in a formal complaint to the university because then he would have wasted three years of his life on his PhD. At that time none of us had any idea how complicit Gender Studies academics were in promoting trans and queer ideology. The irony of it is that the two Cardiff University academics who supported the secret recording and the use of unauthorised quotes in a public lecture presented as lesbians.

Transgender activists have been busy in Stonewall for a very long time. It has been a no-go area for GC lesbians for more than a decade. We've been telling people about it but we're only everyday lesbians, we're not academics, we're not people of influence and we've never counted. Lesbians have been in the majority at Stonewall meetings over the years, we've made the tea, we've kept lesbian events and social circles and support groups going – but we've been treated with total disdain by the women who've been fronting the organisation for years. Don't imagine that Ruth Hunt was the first or only Stonewall woman to treat fellow lesbians like dirt.

I don't want anyone to imagine for one minute that it's just been men and trans ideologists who have sold lesbians down the river. There are dozens, hundreds probably, of high-profile, influential lesbians who have been complicit – most of them, I suspect, because they saw being woke as being more helpful to their careers than being GC.

Sorry to write at such length, but some of us have been dealing with this shit for years. There'll be loads of other lesbians all over the country who will tell you similar stories of being put down, ridiculed and patronised by the very people we thought were our allies.

OvaHere · 04/11/2019 11:55

Wow thatdamnwomen that's horrifying.

allmywhat · 04/11/2019 12:20

Oh my god that PhD story.

Is it definitely too late to bring a complaint to the university about that man's supervisors and their ethics? Maybe they could take down the entire Gender Studies department.

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