GC Doula ‘hounded out’ of Doula UK Charity

[FeminineWiles]

It is a daily fail link (complete with sad face photo) - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7643251/Charity-hounds-birth-coach-post-saying-women-children.html

Summary - a GC doula has been kicked out of the organisation for gender critical views. She has said exactly what I feel and what I would want a doula to say if she were supporting me through pregnancy and labour. About 20 TRAs wrote to the organisation to complain about her sparking a four month suspension and before she was found to have breached their guidelines.

If you would like to contact Doula UK, the PR is Sarah Robinson and her email is [email protected]. She is listed as the main contact and I can’t find details of anyone else on the website.

oops!

The first video above is visible as I linked to Igor Charkovsky's youtube channel

nothing much to see, just conversation in Russian

the 2nd video is of the baby yoga and the 3rd is of various birthing methods including dolphin assisted water births

Excellent post, hoodathunkit, thank you

The baby yoga video is horrific.

As for "lotus births as the criticism said If left for a period of time after the birth, there is a risk of infection in the placenta which can consequently spread to the baby. The placenta is particularly prone to infection as it contains blood. Within a short time after birth, once the umbilical cord has stopped pulsating, the placenta has no circulation and is essentially dead tissue.”

That's exactly what I thought.

Doula UK isn't as extreme as that of course but from their website I'm struggling to work out exactly what their point is.

What the hell is wrong with that baby yoga woman?? I can't believe the people watching could just let her swing her crying baby around like that!

Also, I am not taking birthing advice from people who claim to be able to communicate telepathically with dolphins.

I was tagged into a discussion about this in a group for charity communications workers that I belong to on Facebook. They're nearly all saying the charity did the right thing and this woman was transphobic!

I feel so lonely sometimes. Thank god for this place and sense. All that women go through with pregnancy and childbirth and it's transphobic to say only women give birth? Only women have a cervix? Who made these rules? Who are they trying to please/placate? Since when is science transphobic? Since when do you get the sack for telling the truth?

I know Lynsey personally and shes a fantastic woman. I'm so happy to see the support she's getting

If I had wanted someone to support me through childbirth then I would want a woman who has given birth herself (and not a very easy birth either) and who would speak up for me and only me during the process. I certainly wouldn’t want someone telling be men can give birth too; that I mustn’t use my breasts to feed the baby but must use my chest (how?); that my feelings must take second place to men especially any male health practitioners who identify as women; that I am being exclusionary by talking about my labour pains, uterine prolapse or vaginal tears...

If these doulas can’t stand up to TRAs then I wouldn’t trust them to speak up for women during childbirth either.

If these doulas can’t stand up to TRAs then I wouldn’t trust them to speak up for women during childbirth either

In a nutshell. I suspect the charity was scared, losing funding, goodwill whatever. But when it comes down to it if you're a charity, or a commercial organisation for that matter, the client group or consumers MUST come first. Not outside activists. Whom I suspect may in some cases be deliberately targeting and picking off groups where they see vulnerability and people wanting a quiet life. Well here's the thing. Appeasing bullies never gives you a quiet life. They always come back for me. It's uncomfortable taking a stand but take a stand sometimes you must.

judge made it fairly clear that their opinion was that if you were deliberately getting pregnant that you were no longer "living as a man".

Interesting

By this same logic, if a trans woman ejaculates with their penis, they are no longer “living like a woman”.

...Somehow I doubt this will be used in court as a Legal justification to deny a male person anything. Funny how that works isn’t it?

I think I am probably on the same group as you, @MissLawls. I suspect there are lots of us rolling our eyes at the uberwoke commenters. I was just consoling myself with the fact that they all called the NSPCC rubberwankguy-gate scandal homophobic bullying, rather than exposing red flag behaviour from someone working in child protection charity. Which I think we can conclude was the wrong call.

Much thanks @Firepile for that. You are quite right. They called the NSPCC thing wrong and I was one of few people on there who pointed out the safeguarding issues. Which I would've thought came first with the NSPCC - not a greater concern with being woke and supposedly right on!

Whenever I post about it in that group I get private messages from charity workers saying they agree with me but daren't say so publicly for fear of their careers. Which is both shocking and deeply disturbing. Let's put that boldly. Women are afraid to speak the truth or they might lose their jobs. They'll have families, mortgages, may be carers (as I am) and not be able to speak freely for fear of losing income. What does that remind you of, if you studied recent 20th century history? Stasi and McCarthyism!

Thanks for the support here. Today I am feeling a little less lonely as a result.

Don’t be lonely misslaws

You will be assured that every ordinary person agrees with you

But then as the newbie Lang says there has been regulorty capture

But there is huge pushback now

Much thanks @littlbrowndog. Appreciate that. And I hope you're right and this nonsense is fading fast.

I'm going to stay away from that group for a bit. Who has the energy? It's so exhausting! And in another place, a very small forum, I face daily attacks as a Jew too for not supporting Corbyn and Labour.

You know what's weird? I'll tell you what's weird. Twitter is a lot easier and far less abusive! And here too of course! Thanks mumsnet.

💪 strength misslaws

Thanks again. Just glad I'm coming up to retirement so don't have to watch my back as much as many younger women are forced to. Lucky me eh. Kind of...

I know it can feel very isolating-especially when you post something “controversial” (!) and you get many many likes but no one else says anything
I first heard about all this doublespeak business around 2015 I think. I don’t comment on FB any more. It was so exhausting. My friend and I left Twitter because a TRA started lining up pins to dox us to our employer.
The breastfeeding stasi are the absolute worst...I got a lot of abuse and even death threats for saying men can’t breastfeed! From WOMEN!! Didn’t work tho because I’m yet to be convinced they can🤷‍♀️
I talk in the real world a lot more now and honestly 99.9% of people get it.

I cannot STAND this reporting people to their employers thing. It's straight out the Stasi/McCarthy playbook. (What does "lining up pins to dox us") mean though?

And death threats for saying men can't breast feed. They can't! That's a fact. But you're quite right @Siameasy it IS exhausting. I can only hope one day we look back on this and go, what!? You mean women got fired for speaking the truth about the female experience!?

My OH often asks me who benefits from this, who are people trying to please/placate when they go along with this? And I've no answer. It isn't some big corporate conspiracy. I think it's much more insidious. It's people trying to be woke, going with the flow. It's very much what Milgram demonstrated - obedience to the norm even when every fibre of your being is screaming, no, this can't be right!

@Firepile I've now had comments removed from the thread about this in the Third Sector group. I guess that's a step before I'm chucked out of it. Still, I've managed to stay the right side of the mumsnet rules on this so that gives me some comfort. (I have read them too! Several times!)

Apparently I upset people pointing out science isn't transphobic nor is it transphobic to state scientific facts.

Maaan when you delete people for SCIENCE you've crossed a very scary line indeed. Remember Galileo!?

To be fair, she must have known that what she was saying would offend trans men - some of whom may employ doulas if they have babies.

If transmen decide to have babies they aren't living as men they've denied their own claim to gender identity. If pregnant they need to just get on with the birthing process and get over their gender sensitivities. No placating for the deluded. This is all such nonsense.

If you work in the birth industry, you have to be very careful with your terminology.

Vulva, clitoris, vagina, cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries, ova... these are our words. Breastfeeding, childbirth, and so on are mother's words. If you can't handle the fact that only women have babies then you really shouldn't be having children. There is no reason that a doula, midwife, OBGYN, nurse, or any other hcp or birth guide provider should modify/deny language or medical terminology or the biological reality of a female's body to placate those that wish to twist material reality. If one is too sensitive to handle realistic language about the body about what happens during pregnancy about the dangers and pitfalls of pregnancy and childbirth they need professional psychiatric or psychological care not modification of language to suit their delusion or traumatic (or not) aversion to pragmatism.

The doula did nothing wrong. Women as a class have spent far too long being nice. Good on this doula for being honest and ignoring the pressure to "be nice".

I always thought the point of Doulas was to support women and generally women supporting women. Sigh.

I do feel sorry for the midwives, community midwives and doulas who are going to come up against this more and more.

@StopThePlanet I am standing and applauding you. On the interwebs.

My comments were similar to yours on a Facebook group I belong to but they were deleted because they upset some people.

What I REALLY want to say in response to that is, have you ever in your entire life faced a real problem? But I'd probably get banned if I said that. Hell I might get banned from here for saying that. Real life is so much easier! You can say what you like!

Real problems

When my partner's niece committed suicide. A few years earlier he'd rescued her from a failed attempt minutes before she died.

Holding my brother's hand as he slipped away when malignant melanoma claimed him at the age of 40. We were born just 17 months apart. 21 years later it's a pain that never goes. It was, still is, like losing one of my arms.

Not being able to have children and tearing up when I see prams or young babies and toddlers. A random toddler's grin can make me want to smile and cry at the same time.

My partner being diagnosed with Parkinson's. His father had it too. My partner is a guitarist who can no longer play the guitar, something he has done all his life.

Losing my parents close together when they were only in their early 70s.

My cousin's son drowning on holiday.

THAT'S what I want to say to people who get all hurty feelz because women use the real words and science to describe pregnancy, childbirth and motherhood. Our words. Have they ever had a real problem? It's a First World issue. It's middle class and usually white. It's a class issue as someone pointed out on Twitter.

If this post is deleted, I'm out of here.

puts things right into perspective.

Thanks

Being a member of Doula UK I can say that there are many of us who do not hold the views of the Leadership Team who run it. It saddens me that there are many members who are too scared to say what they really think for fear of being shot down, or persecuted. I know for a fact many have contacted Lyndsey directly but haven't posted on any threads on Doula UK. I am all for inclusivity but not at the expense of women's terminology. Why not have additional wording that can be used when requested, rather than replace. Add logos rather than remove, add changing rooms rather than merge. I am seeing a lot of women, who are not transphobic, but can see hard earnt freedoms for women being removed or replaced. But when this is voiced it is labelled as being transphobic, which it is not. I think Lyndsey has been incredibly brave and is getting a huge amount of support. If you feel that Doula UK have handled this badly, do email them as the more women that complain, may force them to realise that the large majority of women that they will be supporting do not agree with their behaviour.