Trans actors should be playing not-trans roles

[jenthelibrarian]

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/oct/28/cast-more-transgender-actors-in-non-trans-roles-union-urges?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR12wKFUQQqKtC1NjcR9wnxfp9wPdfjWrISoBOWaqTl5jCv-LTR2NFUongY#Echobox=1572286540

“The fact that [a performer] is trans may be completely invisible in the role or production, but it powerfully represents diversity in the industry. This ‘invisible’ diversity is just as important as more physically recognisable forms of diversity.”

Really??

Fine. Actors create characters, so don’t have to ‘be’ who they are playing.

However how does this line up with complaints when non-trans actors play trans roles? (And similar debates about who should play disabled/gay/race specific roles.)

Does this also mean that non-trans actors should be playing trans roles? Or is it only a one-way street?

This might be answered in the linked article but I don't tend to click Guardian links these days.

So a trans woman could play a cis man? And this wouldn't be triggering?

Cis-appropriation? Can that be a thing?

As far as I can guess (I didn't Google) the Netflix series "You" had a trans woman in a female role. The character may or may not have been trans, it wasn't raised and didn't matter to the plot. (They were excellently cast imo!) I thought this was quite nice, people just being who they are with no angst about it.

I think whoever is best for the part should play it rather than the character matching the background of the actor. Trans people can put themselves forward for whatever acting parts they like and it should work both ways. I can see eg why Eddie Redmayne was picked to star in the Danish Girl rather than an unknown trans actor. He’s a fantastic actor and a big name. Picking someone just because they happen to share an identity-based characteristic with the character wont work if they can’t act.

In reality, in most cases, unless it is someone who passes as the opposite sex, their roles are likely to be limited to where the character is trans as otherwise the audience is unlikely to find it believable.

Interesting. In 90% (my statistic) of films a woman has to be under 30 while the male lead can be any age.

I wonder how old transwomen playing female leads will be?

To be totally honest, I watched all the episodes of You and I didn’t twig at all that Hari Nef was a transwoman. And as you say, it was not part of the character. So that is a good example then.

Talisa Garcia seems to be someone who simply got on with acting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6733419/Baptiste-star-Talisa-Garcia-reveals-wasnt-given-roles-wasnt-transgender-enough.html

The transwoman would play a woman. They'd have to be very passable. It can be done - I saw a transwoman actor in a crime drama once who looked quite convincing. That particular actor had SRS quite young.

Talisa Garcia! That's the one.

Yeah I would not know that Talisa Garcia was trans either. That’s obviously totally fine. In fact, someone like Garcia probably wouldn’t be ideal for a trans role because she doesn’t look trans. In films that involve an actual transition then a non-trans person might be best to show the before and after.

Basically, anyone who wants to audition for any parts should be allowed to do so!

More Jewish actors should play Muslim roles! More left-handed actors should play right-handed roles! More dyslexic actors should play non-dyslexic roles! More tone-deaf actors should play singing roles!

Horse

To be totally honest, I watched all the episodes of You and I didn’t twig at all that Hari Nef was a transwoman. And as you say, it was not part of the character. So that is a good example then.

I twigged straight away and googled who Hari Nef was, but as you say, didn't make any difference to the role or story, so not really an issue. Certainly didn't go unnoticed though, and I think it was appropriate given the boyfriend's character - Ethan.

I can see why it would make sense to cast trans people as trans people and why they might take issue at eg natal women being cast as trans women, taking a role that they would be perfect for.

I feel the same about Kevin McHale being cast as Arti in Glee, I'm sure there must be many amazing performers who actually use a wheelchair that could have played that role. And obviously its frowned upon these days to be cast outside of your ethnicity.

However, if you start saying who can/can't be cast in whatever roles then you're playing an impossible game, as some of the examples upthread suggest.

By all means, make sure to be represented where appropriate and to include trans actors without making a song and dance about it, but that doesn't mean shoe-horning trans actors into non-trans roles just to make a point.

Anyone have the link to Owl's film trailer?

Just so I can see the bit where the transphobe next door gets told off really

Blind casting is a great thing, appoint the best actor to the role with no preconceptions. I'm all for that. If that means more trans actors are cast that's great, along with more diversity of actors in race, age, bodyshape etc, anyone can pitch for any part and the best actor gets the role.

Casting merely to ram identity politics down everyone's throats Because Its Good For Them however will just piss everyone off, it's an own goal. Like the unholy fuss kicked up whenever a non trans actor is cast in a trans or anything even remotely gender non conforming role, which has led to at least one major film being abandoned. The word has surely gone out in the industry not to touch the subject, it's not worth the pain and aggro and you'll never be able to be right for being wrong.

There's also the difficulty with the TRA lobby comprehending that when a huge amount of money is involved and dependent on an audience, there has to be usually a big name or two who will pull them in. Casting an unknown in a major role is too great a financial risk.

I think a problem with this is that in order to cast a transwoman in a female role, they will have to absolutely, completely pass (achieved through actual physical appearance & camera / editing trickery). Otherwise audiences won't suspend disbelief. This will cause problems on both sides of the fence.

For gender critical feminists, the problem is that it feeds what I'm calling the 'invisible' version of transwomen, which is the idea that you don't need to worry about TW in woman only spaces because you wouldn't even notice they were trans, so stop moaning because it's all fine. Very different from the reality of finding a 6'2" transwoman, who has made no physical changes beyond clothes, hair and makeup, in the toilets, on the hospital ward, etc.

For TRAs it creates a split. There's transwomen who pass, who are accepted, and transwoman who don't. Given that many (most) transwomen don't pass, yet seem to be deluded into believing that they do, how will they react when that line is drawn, and they find themselves on the wrong side of it? (Am thinking about the confrontation between Jessica Yaniv and Blair White, am sure that there was some angry bonkers ranting from JY about how JY passes and is way more stunning and gorgeous than BW, which is clearly drivel. BW is bloody lovely looking.)

I see the 48% statistical lie is getting another airing.

30to50 now that I watch it, I can tell, but at the time, I really didn’t twig, probably because it did not feature in any of the story. But as others have said, not really relevant to the story.

I think the passing thing is important though. Passing determines whether you are treated by society as a man or a woman. Someone like Blair White will be perceived to be a woman, unless someone knows the background. Someone like JY, Jane Fae, Jess Bradley etc really will not and will not experience the same treatment as those perceived to be female do. That’s why I find the TRA arguments that ‘sex is on a spectrum’ to be idiotic. It may be, but who cares? The point is that society divides between those it perceives to be male and those it perceives to be female. I could have hidden testes that I am unaware of but it wouldn’t matter because it wouldn’t change the fact that society saw me and treated me as a woman.