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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

HR make women leave halloween party for dressing too male, "triggering" transwoman colleague

55 replies

wigglybluelines · 29/10/2019 11:40

I saw this post on Reddit. This is another level. I can well imagine a TW would get upset by this, that's not surprising. It's that any HR professionals are indulging this bonkers behaviour that has me Shock

I'm 26/F. Yesterday my job had a halloween party that I looked forward to.

I dressed up as Harvey Two Face, spent half an hour having half my face done with makeup, etc. I didn't go as a female Harvey Two face with a feminized outfit, etc... I went as the male Harvey Two face wearing a men's suit (my boyfriend helped me pick one out), men's shoes, etc.

Everyone loved the costume and for the first hour or so things were fine. Two of my male coworkers also showed up in gender bending costumes (one was Captain Marvel in a body suit with a wig, the other came as Harley Quinn in a skirt). Overall everyone had a good time.

Then my coworker who is a transwoman (let's call her Sarah) got to the party. I've never had an issue with her and as far as I know no one at work has given her a problem (although I'm not HR so I can't know that for sure).

A bit after she showed up HR pulled me to the side along with my trans coworker and told me that it would be best if I left because my costume was offensive and triggering to Sarah.

I asked what she meant and Sarah told me that me being a woman and dressing as a man is triggering to her, because people still know I'm a woman, but if she were to dress as a male character people would doubt her womanhood because she's trans.

I told her that I don't understand and that there are other people here (the two guys) who are in gender bending costumes, and she said it wasn't about them and that I am the one who is triggering because I have "cis female privilege". She also said that for all she knows the two guys might have trans feelings they aren't ready to come out about, so it isn't her place to tell them that they can't dress feminine.

I told her that she is assuming things about me that she isn't about them and that I don't mean any harm, but I like my costume. At that point HR told me she can't make me leave, but that Sarah had been crying in the bathroom earlier and that it would mean a lot if I just left for the night.

So I said my goodbyes and left, but I cried in the Uber home. I was having a good time. I didn't mean to hurt anyone with my costume, but I don't understand why being a female means that I had to leave, while the guys were free to wear their feminine costumes.

AITA for feeling this way? AITA for showing up in a costume without thinking about transwomen? I'm confused.

There's another party a friend is having tonight, but I don't know if I even want to go because I don't want to upset trans people.

I'm still dealing with this as it happened last night, but now I'm upset that I'm being censored on reddit. From what people who have PM'd me have said, they knew my post would get removed because reddit doesn't allow anyone (especially women) to say anything about trans people (specifically trans women).

I just think it's wrong that I was made to leave the party while the two men who cross dressed were allowed to stay. I don't get it.

What's next? Women won't be allowed to wear pants because it will trigger transwomen? After that? What if women existing triggers transwomen? Where does it stop? Why do her feelings matter more than mine?

Reddit thread here: It seems like a lot of transwomen hate cis women just for existing and reddit doesn't want people talking about it. I was recently a victim of this

It includes info about how Reddit initially deleted her post and also follow up that she's contacting a lawyer and that one of the guys who was crossdressed contacted her after to say he's outraged at what happened to her and left in protest.

I really hope she sues.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 29/10/2019 11:43

I think that she needs to very quickly identify as "non binary" and sue for discrimination.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 29/10/2019 11:49

How surprising that men dressing as women characters didn't 'trigger' the poor wee XY trans person but a woman dressing as a man character did.

And by surprising I mean entirely predictable from yet another misogynistic arse.

Original poster
wigglybluelines · 29/10/2019 11:52

She should have grounds for sex discrimination, surely?

OP posts:
Whatsnewpussyhat · 29/10/2019 11:57

It's about power and control.
Women shouldn't have to alter their behaviour for fear of "triggering" someone else.

OvaHere · 29/10/2019 12:00

I think she should take legal action. This is targeted harassment by the TW and the organisation she works for.

How far away are we from 'inclusive' HR policies that dictate women must only ever dress in a hyper feminised way and cannot wear trousers? Not very far away is my guess.

HermioneWeasley · 29/10/2019 12:00

I suspect this is in the states

It’s madness and fuelled by narcissistic rage, but the TW is right- women still look like women even when wearing trousers and short hair. Because we’re not an identity or a costume.

QuantumEntanglement · 29/10/2019 12:04

Yeah, some TRAs are beyond unreasonable in their demands/expectations and, post-Yaniv, I’m inured to being shocked any more but I’m going with ‘things that didn’t happen’ on this one. It just seems too pat and contrived, neatly ticks too many buzzword boxes. Nope, it’s just a dog-whistling froth generator if you ask me

stillathing · 29/10/2019 12:06

It's inevitable that women who don't perform stereotypes of femininity are going to become a problem if the group "women" has to be defined by those stereotypes.

The argument that "cis privilege" is where a female is read as a female regardless of how much they adhere to feminine stereotypes is so back to front it's incredible anybody takes it seriously. Hell yes we understand that we are read and treated as female whatever! That is part of how we experience oppression!

RoyalCorgi · 29/10/2019 12:06

Can you be sure on Reddit that stuff isn't made up? It's an entertaining story but one that I'd take with a pinch of salt.

On the other hand, if it is true, then we're all doomed and the sooner a comet takes out the human race the better.

stillathing · 29/10/2019 12:07

Ahh I really hope you're right quantum

Besidesthepoint · 29/10/2019 12:12

Too bad she didn't tell them that she was non binary and that their request was triggering.

CranberriesChoccy · 29/10/2019 12:13

My inner sceptic is tingling on this one.

mummmy2017 · 29/10/2019 12:17

Totally agree you should have said you were having gender identity issues and testing you transmale feelings.

OvaHere · 29/10/2019 12:18

It could be a fabrication (because internet) but it's equally as likely to be true because who would have believed all the Yaniv stuff if we didn't see it occur in real time?

Hypatia415 · 29/10/2019 12:18

This all looks incredibly suspicious.

I think it's less likely that this is a true account then something someone cooked up to tick all the right outrage boxes.

PeterRouseTheFleshofMankind · 29/10/2019 12:23

My first thought when reading this story was 'bullshit'. Especially the bit about the HR person referring to the 'cis female privilege'. It just reads a bit like it's ticking boxes.

However, considering what I have seen online over the last few months/years, it's not totally beyond the realms of possible!

BarbaraStrozzi · 29/10/2019 12:24

My instincts are with quantum in this one: to be filed under "cool story, bro."

Original poster
wigglybluelines · 29/10/2019 12:26

Can you be sure on Reddit that stuff isn't made up?

No, no more or less than any online forum (eg this one!)

It's an entertaining story but one that I'd take with a pinch of salt.

Yes, fair enough, and I also know what people mean about it being tick-boxy - but also I entirely agree with this:

considering what I have seen online over the last few months/years, it's not totally beyond the realms of possible!

Most of the stuff that's going on now, that I know to be true, I wouldn't have believed possible a couple of years ago.

OP posts:
Original poster
wigglybluelines · 29/10/2019 12:26

Hopefully it's bollocks. I'd rather that be true than that this is where we're at.

OP posts:
BickerinBrattle · 29/10/2019 12:32

I can absolutely see this happening in any tech start-up on the US west coast. If she’s in Portland, it DEFINITELY happened.

I actually don’t see any other sort of job site even hosting a Halloween party to begin with.

beckyvardy · 29/10/2019 12:36

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andyoldlabour · 29/10/2019 12:36

"but it's equally as likely to be true because who would have believed all the Yaniv stuff if we didn't see it occur in real time?"

This 100%, I now feel as though anything is possible.

CharlieParley · 29/10/2019 12:46

My first thought when reading this story was 'bullshit'. Especially the bit about the HR person referring to the 'cis female privilege'.

Entirely possible that this is not true, but it was not HR but the male who told the woman she had cis-privilege.

The OP later states she is the only black person working in the company and the complainant is white.

I will certainly be watching this story - leaving the crossdressing men in peace and taking the crossdressing woman to task seems likely in this scenario (for various reasons).

What speaks for her is that she posted it elsewhere first, expecting to be able to discuss freely what happened to her and then finding herself being censored instead. That is actually a typical trajectory for those falling afoul of the ideology unknowingly and only finding out about all of this nonsense after posting their complaint somewhere public.

Qcng · 29/10/2019 12:49

I saw someone talking about this on Twitter.
I'm not so sure to dismiss this as fabricated.

I mean, Always recently removed the Venus symbol because trans, so honestly we're down the rabbit hole whether we like it or not, anything is possible.

HandsOffMyRights · 29/10/2019 13:15

There's so much batshittery that it is entirely possible this happened. Nothing would surprise me.

I bet in the US, the Games Stop employee wasn't expecting the 'Call me Ma'am" day or that the teenage girls using the Target changing rooms one day were expecting fully intact males to be in their spaces.

(Can I use the Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition meme yet?)

If it's true, I hope this woman takes legal action.