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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yaniv has lost.

146 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 22/10/2019 18:52

The judgement:

Yaniv has lost.
OP posts:
SetYourselfOnFire · 23/10/2019 06:29

I surprised to be honest. I thought Yaniv was put up to it by Devyn Cousineau and Morgane Oger -- I still think that. The media attention just prevented them from going through with it. It was supposed to happen under cover of a publication ban, but Yaniv violated the PB, then it got international media attention. Corruption succeeds in the dark. The only way we win is to get as much attention as possible onto what's happening.

Karabair · 23/10/2019 06:45

The judgement does draw a tiny line for women. Women cannot be compelled to touch penises and scrotums:

I do not accept that a person's decision to touch a stranger's vulva then requires them to also touch a stranger's penis and scrotum

So all the trans BS about ladydick and outie vaginas flies out the window. The scrotum is still a male body part. We won the smallest victories. We are still not allowed to treat MTF trans as male however, and act accordingly.

FannyCann · 23/10/2019 06:59

The Member (judge) was going to award higher fines - at least $5000 per represented defendant, so $15,000 total) but deemed that Yaniv had suffered a lot and was vulnerable so thought €2000 per complainant was fair.

I haven't had time to read the judgement yet. Is this from the judgement?

What about the vulnerability of the women and their suffering?

According to 🥝 Yaniv a. Has no money and b. Won't be inclined to pay anyway and
c. The women have little if any hope of seeing the money
Not sure if Canada has anything equivalent of the small claims courts we have here - but the consensus seemed to be suing for that sort of money isn't realistic.

If the sums awarded had been higher there might have been more chance of the women being able to pursue payment.

Perhaps their lawyer will carry on and chase it but I don't hold out much hope of them getting any satisfactory results any time soon.

HandsOffMyRights · 23/10/2019 07:05

Great news.
Fuming for the women that it even came to this.
I hope they counter sue.

No woman should be forced to handle male genitalia.

SetYourselfOnFire · 23/10/2019 07:18

Activists have been doing the same thing in Canada they're doing in the UK and USA by claiming things are already in the laws, when they're not. Canadian law doesn't say transwomen are women. BC has "gender identity" in its provincial constitution, Ontario might too, but the rest of Canada doesn't. These haven't been tested against the federal Supreme court which trumps provincial laws. Bill c16 which people are interpreting as saying so doesn't explicitlythat's merely one interpretation that activists have been using which hasn't been tested in federal court for constitutionality either. There've been a handful of Supreme Court of Canada precedents in the past couple decades about women's sex-based rights, giving priority over religious rights (Bruker v. Marcovitz) and women's right to safety knocking down other laws (Canada v. Bedford). I think gender identity is unconstitutional because it conflicts with too many other explicitly defined rights like sex (gender identity isn't in the Charter but activists want it "read in"). I think female prisoners need to sue the federal government that their Charter rights are being violated by being housed with transwomen. I think that's a slam dunk win. The problem is this all takes a complaint with standing from a female prisoner impacted, money for lawyers, lawyers willing to take the case, and years to work its way through the courts.

NeedChoos · 23/10/2019 07:26

Interesting take from

[https://mobile.twitter.com/MorganeOgerBC/status/1186766068359909378]

Floisme · 23/10/2019 07:29

Yay! Even if there proves to be a sting in the tail, I celebrate good news whenever I can.
Massive thank you to goinglikeelsie for reporting the case while the mainstream media looked away.
Will Trudeau losing his majority be significant too or is Canada totally lost?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 23/10/2019 08:16

In that Oger twitter thread, I noticed someone still trying to justify it as though they knew better, and the "poor trans people" line, even after a clear and unambiguous written judgement.

Then I noticed the profile pic and it all became clear.

AfterSchoolWorry · 23/10/2019 08:23

I wish someone would press charges against Yaniv for vexatious claims and harassment though.

Yaniv shouldn't be allowed to get away with harassing that woman and wasting police and court time and money. Little bag of shit.

LangCleg · 23/10/2019 09:37

We need a clear ruling that nobody providing services out of their home can ever be compelled to accept as a client and thus allow into their home anyone who they don't feel comfortable with. Will someone people not want people as clients for bigoted reasons? Maybe, but the individual's right to refuse strangers access to their home if they don't want those strangers there has to outweigh that.

Yes.

If I were offering any kind of service out of my home and was home alone when working, I would not provide service to any stranger male, whatever the "identification". Obvious safety/risk assessment reasons.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 23/10/2019 10:51

setyourself I agree they had probably hoped to put this through undercover. That is probably why they side-stepped the question about whether it was ok to discriminate against men on the basis of sex and disallowed the claim due to JY’s outrageous behaviour.

Michelleoftheresistance · 23/10/2019 11:44

I agree the judge had reasons for being able to side step some obvious and important issues here, which is unfortunate as the case law is needed. Had this been a male born trans person approaching using no questionable behaviour and simply requesting an arm wax, (and of bringing only one case instead of a shopping list), then it would have had to be debated in much more detail. How would the women's religious and cultural issues with being alone with someone they (and their partners) perceive as male be balanced with the perceived injustice of someone who identifies as a woman not being treated the same as other women? How would the right of someone working alone from home to say no to any new client they are not comfortable with for whatever reason be balanced compared to the right of say, a large salon to say no to particular customers, when technically there is no difference between the body part in male or female clients? That would have been complicated and challenging to work through and would have got down to some of the fundamental issues going on here.

However in terms of legal precedent, a judge has noted and regarded a clear difference between gender identity and physical sex being applicable in some circumstances, which is important. Other people's needs, rights, own vulnerabilities and feelings were considered in equal balance - including the right of a woman to say no when the behaviour of the other person was evidenced as inappropriate. Other people's perceptions of male and female as a basis for their choices and feelings is also recognised as valid.

Yes, the judge escaped a few tricky situations there and managed for example to skirt entirely round whether sexually motivated behaviour may have been involved in Yaniv's actions.

FleetsumNJetsum · 23/10/2019 17:10

Cousineau laid the blame on Yaniv's racism and mostly ignored the fetishistic grossness ( ie tampon string), sexually predatory actions and sense of resentful entitlement. "Yaniv is bad, because Yaniv is a racist, not because Yaniv is a pervert". That's my reading of the judgement.

Because of course that never happens.

Karabair · 23/10/2019 17:37

Yes Yaniv's tranness and thus vulnerability has whitewashed Yaniv's pervertedness. It was Yaniv's perversion that these women were resisting, not Yaniv's racism.

We are now going to have to talk about how women can be perverts too.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/10/2019 18:03

Yes, it sounded that way, Fleet.
The possible irony is that I suspect Yaniv targeted these women precisely because JY wanted to maximise the chances of being refused - whether to extort money or bring a court case or whatever. Yaniv was using their race/religion.
A case of being hoist on ones own petard?

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 23/10/2019 19:42

I agree with you FleetsumNJetsum and Karabair.

AngeloMysterioso · 24/10/2019 16:06

I didn't realise that Yaniv describes themselves as a lesbian

Oh, not just a lesbian...

“A fighter for equality. Beautiful lesbian and advocate for human rights and eliminating discrimination towards the #LGBTQ #LGBTQoftwitter - Jessica Yaniv (she/her/hers)”

and

“LGBTQIA+ Advocate, Friend, Daughter & Tech Blogger. She/Her/Hers. Human rights advocate. Model. Global Internet Personality. Social Justice Warrior. Marketer.”

Beautiful lesbian, model, global internet personality... the self-aggrandisement is strong with this one.

NonnyMouse1337 · 24/10/2019 16:13

I've had to bite my lip to stop myself from giggling at my office desk.

One thing's for sure ... They are definitely a global internet personality. The infamous kind. Grin

WrongKindOfFace · 24/10/2019 21:30

Good. Those poor women though, being dragged through the courts.

FleetsumNJetsum · 25/10/2019 10:24

Meghan Murphy isn't bitter

YouJustDoYou · 25/10/2019 11:42

I didn't realise that Yaniv describes themselves as a lesbian

Most of them claim they're "lesbians". Yaniv also says they had two "periods" in a month including painful "cramps", so, I'm thinking it's just making shit up, for whatever strange attention seeking reason.

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