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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Finally Cycling weekly acknowledges RMcK's existence

61 replies

MonsteraCheeseplant · 18/10/2019 19:57

And the tweet replied are fucking brilliant.
twitter.com/cyclingweekly/status/1185136789205467136?s=19

Finally the men are piping up and even referencing fair play for women. Finally.

OP posts:
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/10/2019 10:42
AnyFucker · 19/10/2019 10:48

Feminists are to blame for not speaking up, some folk conclude

NO

Fairenuff · 19/10/2019 11:03

the comments I see saying 'why aren't women complaining about this'

Yes, why aren't women complaining about this.

Oh wait...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3720536-Feminism-2020-Conference-in-NZ-has-venue-pulled-following-campaign-by-TRAs

Women are shouting until they are hoarse. We always knew that sport would be the only way men would be interested in anything that disadvantages women.

aliasundercover · 19/10/2019 11:15

Women have been making noise here of course, and in a few other places, but I get where that person is coming from - out in the big wide world you mostly either hear little about this or 'stunning and brave'.

... and most people most of the time want to be nice. They hear that TW are fighting for their rights and go "oh yeah, ok, fair enough". "Be Fair to Everyone" is an easy message to promote, whereas "Hey! Hang on a sec, this requires a bit more thought" is not.

Not that long ago if you'd asked me about this I'd have said something like "Um, ok TWAW, yeah, whatever" because I was ignorant about what it meant. It's people like McKinnon taking women's places (then gloating about it) and saying we should suck ladydick that finally woke me up.

testing987654321 · 19/10/2019 11:26

Not sure if I started the discussion about why women aren't complaining. I was basing it on so many people being scared to speak out at work because of fearing for their jobs. I am pretty certain most women MPs haven't pointed out the madness of this. Labour include transwomen on their all women shortlists.

None of this would have been possible if everyone who thought it was madness said so.

I am definitely not having a go at all the women who have been speaking out.

teawamutu · 19/10/2019 15:37

It's true, testing. I've been one of them; first keeping quiet due to not understanding and trying to be nice, and then from fear when I saw what happened to other women.

But I feel like we've got some momentum now - every person I see speak up, every cautious GC conversation I have, every crowdfunder I dig into, every time I go outside wearing one of my AHF tops, makes me feel braver.

NotTerfNorCis · 19/10/2019 16:29

I read the attached article, and apparently there's been a study that shows the disparity between individual women is greater than the disparity between the average man and woman, therefore it's fair for transwomen to compete.

Well ok - why do we segregate sport at all then? Why have a separate women's category? Would McKinnon be happy if they got rid of sex segregation because men and women aren't that different at all? Or does McKinnon think that women have a separate category so their female gender identity can be validated?

RoyalCorgi · 19/10/2019 17:02

I don't know whether I'm more pissed off by that, or the comments I see saying 'why aren't women complaining about this'.

That makes me really sad as well as angry. So many women have worked so hard on this: writing stuff, organising meetings, attending meetings, setting up petitions, lobbying MPs, posting threads here and elsewhere - and yet we're apparently unheard. Invisible. Even people like Sharron Davies and Tanni Grey-Thompson don't receive that much attention. The media just aren't interested.

And then suddenly Piers Morgan decides it's an issue and everyone's listening. I'm not angry with Morgan (on the contrary, I'm grateful), but it does make me feel pretty bitter that no one takes any notice until a high-profile man speaks up.

MonsteraCheeseplant · 19/10/2019 17:10

Yeah the actual article is ignorant and spineless, however it is doing a great job of peak trans-ing cycling fans.

OP posts:
Tanith · 19/10/2019 17:23

I am so looking forward to Piers Morgan discovering sweet little Stephonknee Wolsch Grin

NotTerfNorCis · 19/10/2019 17:45

'why aren't women complaining about this'.

We are. Then we get told we aren't human and deserve to die in a fire.

teawamutu · 19/10/2019 17:46

Let's not waste him on Stephonknee, funny as that would be.

There's a namesake that would benefit even more from the sunlight. Or Alex 'redefining the bandwidth of woman' Drummond. Or maybe even a certain rather fishy charity...

kristallen · 19/10/2019 17:55

NotTerfNorCis actually McKinnon was asked exactly that by a Sky reporter...and looked horrified!

news.sky.com/video/nr-transgender-cyclist-kelner-for-mobile-mp4-11838457

ignatiusjreilly · 19/10/2019 18:25

kristallen I thought that reporter was good. And how refreshing to see RM answering the questions without resorting to angry name-calling and threats.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/10/2019 18:43

Does he have kids who're not adult yet? If so the charity would definitely be a good direction to point him in, especially with the Flora thing being in the news.

breakfastpizza · 19/10/2019 19:09

Majority of comments are against RM and TIMs competing against women. Good to see.

rabbitwoman · 19/10/2019 19:28

Toilets and changing rooms are all becoming unisex because of this movement and because noone has the nerve to argue that TWAM; therefore the new argument is that men and women are THE SAME and so don't need separate facilities. This is going to endanger TW as much as women, isn't it? Won't transwomen, scared of male violence, also avoid unisex facilities and eventually just stay at home?

I have also read that men have no advantage over women in sport, women just need to try harder; transwomen have no advantage because hormones they take make them weaker; I have seen some cowardice in tackling the issue and just keeping sports segregated by sex so I can see the next step, I can predict it in my crystal ball...... let's make all sports unisex! All men and women just compete together in one big category, the overall fastest wins, because we are all human, right? And as humans, we are all the same, right!!??

Well, women will loose out, but also these pre-weakened transwomen, who would never cut it in their male competitions. So AGAIN, everyone looses.

Round of applause, TRAs. Thanks for that.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 19/10/2019 19:33

apparently there's been a study that shows the disparity between individual women is greater than the disparity between the average man and woman, therefore it's fair for transwomen to compete.

Eh? But some people can't walk. Some are 100. Some are in comas! Surely the disparity is as enormous as it possibly could be in terms of fitness/ability whatever? How does that make this fair? I just genuinely can't even see what that is supposed to mean?

ErrolTheDragon · 19/10/2019 21:14

Talk about a completely invalid conclusion to draw from statisticsHmm. Elite sports isn't between average men and women. It involves just the people at the top end of the distribution for whatever physical attributes are needed for that sport. And in just about every case, the mens curve stretches further than the women's. Can anyone not mentally draw the diagram?

NotTerfNorCis · 19/10/2019 22:28

A study by Loughbough University academics was carried out after the Rio 2016 Olympics after concerns about transgender athletes having an advantage.

After reviewing 31 national and international transgender sporting policies, including those of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), the Football Association and the Lawn Tennis Association, the study concluded that a majority unfairly discriminated against transgender people, especially trans women.

The researchers said that there is no evidence that transgender women have a sporting advantage over athletes born female.

PhD student Beth Jones, who was involved in the study, said: “Our research has also shown that these stringent and unfair policies have a negative impact on transgender people’s experiences of sport and physical activity, even when the activity is engaged in at a recreational level, such as considering joining a local football team or going to the gym.”

McKinnon said: “There is a range of body sizes and strength, you can be successful with massively different body shapes. To take a British example, look at Victoria Pendleton, an Olympic champion with teeny tiny legs.

“In many Olympic disciplines, the gap in performance is bigger between first an eighth in a single sex event than it is between the first man and the first women.”

FleetsumNJetsum · 19/10/2019 23:32

apparently there's been a study that shows the disparity between individual women is greater than the disparity between the average man and woman, therefore it's fair for transwomen to compete

Yes, and at Uni I learned that there are more variations within a race than between races. And the point is?

aliasundercover · 20/10/2019 01:05

The researchers said that there is no evidence that transgender women have a sporting advantage over athletes born female.

They must have had an interesting idea of what 'evidence' is.

How about this:

1: We know that males are physically stronger and faster than females
2: Transwomen have male bodies
3: Er ... that's it.

MidniteScribbler · 20/10/2019 01:13

I just got called a TERF for pointing out that women have been oppressed for thousands of years. Apparently that is not acknowledging that trans people are oppressed. This is literally where we are at now.

4dogs · 20/10/2019 08:52

Why can’t people compete in the category that fits with their chromosomes rather than the category that fits their preferred gender?

testing987654321 · 20/10/2019 09:03

The researchers said that there is no evidence that transgender women have a sporting advantage over athletes born female.

I assume they hadn't actually done any research.

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