Testosterone levels for TW athletes to be lowered

[Doyoumind]

Can't see a thread about this news from yesterday but apologies if it's already been discussed.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/50049449

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/50049449

Still doesn't reduce the massive advantages a male body affords, however - and new research has demonstrated that completely.

Also - why is it these specific races? Why not all?

No, it doesn't. But it shows to a certain extent they are listening.

They’re listening... to the general public screaming that this is a travesty.

Then they’re listening to TRAs and still giving them the opportunity to shit all over women by making a tiny nominal change.

Compromise. Still throws women under the bus as natal women don't have testosterone levels that high. And women aren't men with low testosterone.

And no, no transwoman ever has or ever will be female. Words have meaning, 'woman' can be applied in a legal or social context, but if they are not biologically male then they wouldn't be transwomen. Isn't that rather erasing of transwomen's identities? Everyone's so confused with the language and what is and isn't allowed and what it all means with the lack of shared meaning that it's becoming totally incoherent.

As for calling fairness in sport 'regulating bodies'..... yes. Weight classes in multiple sports. Fitness levels expected. Drug testing. It's a part of sport ffs? It really shows: any 'no', any boundary, is seen as an infringement of personal rights. (And stuff anyone else's rights.)

Self id of "gender" though.

Still, it's going in the right direction.

Look at the language:

"Trans female athlete", "transgender female".

"Under the new regulations a transgender female athlete is no longer required to be recognised by law in her new gender but should provide a signed declaration that her gender identity is female."

Because athletes run/box/jump/wrestle/swim with their identity. It's the efficiency of their identity that is being tested. The strength of their identity. The oxygen uptake and muscle twitch of their identity.

And as for "With trans people making up less than 1% of the population, they point out that there are not even enough known transgender athletes competing at the IAAF level to warrant this level of debate." I suspect we'll find that trans athletes are over-represented in women's sport, just as women with higher-than-average natural levels of testosterone (but still a fraction of men's) are over-represented in women's sport - because biology.

Five is better than ten.

Average female athlete is still around three.

Never mind all the rest of the physiology.

Keep pushing. They shouldn't be competing until they have some proper research which will of course show that testosterone is a fraction of the advantages males have over females.

That paragraph by the LGBT correspondent shows that they're not even a little bit interested in writing a "balanced" piece.

It’s all very well lowering their testosterone. But how the hell do they reduce their cardiac output, lung volume, oxygen carrying capacity, leg length, shoulder girdle, stride advantage from smaller pelvic girdle and carrying angle, etc etc?
And why should women athletes risk serious injury by having to play contact sports against people twice their size and strength?
This minor adjustment doesn’t address the fact that men should not be in women’s sport, whatever they “identify” as.

Not everything has a compromise or middle ground.

Half way between a truth and a lie is still a lie

yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

1. Natural testosterone levels in females (natal females) are about 1 to 2.5nmol/litre - this limit would be twice that.

2. Recent research from the Karolinska Institute has demonstrated that reducing T makes natal males weaker compared to other males - but still stronger than natal women, even biological females on T because they identify as transmen.

3. Testosterone has no impact on other physiological advantages conveyed by male puberty: greater stature, more fast twitch muscles, narrower pelvis, greater VOMax, etc. etc.

TL:DR - it's still a travesty. Biologically male individuals shouldn't be in women's sports regardless of how they identify.

That paragraph by the LGBT correspondent shows that they're not even a little bit interested in writing a "balanced" piece.

I'm going to be a broken record with this quote but this is what John Humphrys had to say about Ben Hunte:

Humphrys went on to criticise remarks by Ben Hunte, the BBC’s new LGBT correspondent, who said he was “looking forward to being the mouthpiece for some marginalised groups”.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john-humphrys-free-to-give-beeb-both-barrels-fnjlh9t73

They're still way higher than the level allowed for women,

I really, really do not like the stuff Ben Hunte writes. He has to be one of the most partial and partisan commentators I've ever seen on a media outlet - more partisan even than Little Owen, Ron Liddle or Piers Morgan.

But the flat out denial of biology is really something else. It would be like the BBC employing an environmental correspondent who was a climate change denialist.

I agree Ben Hunte's comments had no place on the sports pages. It's not his area of expertise and he does always give a totally one-sided view.

And now to shrink the heart and lungs???

This is not good enough and they know it.

The answer is so simple. Do it.

My letter to the BBC- (a bit long)
They have a complaints page but it only allows 50 words.
I quote from the article then respond.

To The BBC Complaints dept
The tone of the enclosed article was pro transgender rights and anti female athletes rights. The BBC is supposed to be unbiased. This was blatantly not.

From the Analysis by Ben Hunte:-

‘Many now see gender as wider than the traditional binaries’ - but in sport it is sex which is the divisor not some innate need, feeling or wish that a human was a woman instead of a man.
‘yet official bodies in a variety of sectors are struggling to adjust’ – it is not the struggle to adjust but the demands to change state and sport laws which worries some people and should worry everyone, and, because being a transgender female can be anything from a feeling to a full sexual-body-part removal and decades of artificial hormones it is OBVIOUSLY more than adjustment that is needed, it is instead scientifically and socially informed facts so that correct decisions can be made.
‘From physical examinations to genetic testing, this ruling is the latest in attempting to regulate the bodies of transgender individuals.’ No it is not an attempt to ‘regulate the bodies of transgender individuals’ it is an attempt to keep sport fair, only transgender male to female sports people are being tested due to the inherent advantage a male body has in strength and build over female. A fact everyone is aware of but that people are terrorised out of stating.
‘Some hugely celebrated cis gender female (female born) athletes say it is for a good reason.’ The athletes referred to are a tennis player and a swimmer so not athletes, this article is under athletics in the BBC Sport Website, and ‘cis gender’, as I am sure Ben Hunte knows, is an offensive a term to many women. Why are the two women even mentioned?
‘These women have ‘continually flagged their concerns……….. around unfair physical advantages.’ The only reason the comments about Martina Natravtilova and Sharon Davies are included is to imply that only TWO women are banging on about this issue. What is the BBC thinking of? Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see that transgender women have unfair physical advantages, anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have no problem stating that. These comments by Ben Hunte are deliberately flagging up two women……..why I wonder?
‘However, LGBQT activists warn that this new method by the IAAF is fear-mongering.’ Why? The writer goes on to say ‘How many elite-level transgender athletes can you name?’ None AS YET. The fear-mongering comment is therefore illogical. But obviously to everyone else rules need to be in place rather than catching up after the problems have emerged.
This demonstrates that blatant bias that is now encouraged by the BBC.

news.sky.com/story/testosterone-does-boost-womens-running-ability-study-finds-amid-semenya-debate-11836680

The results showed that those women in the testosterone group were able to run on a treadmill for longer before reaching the point of exhaustion - by an average of 21.17 seconds - compared with those in the other group.

Testosterone also led to an increase in lean muscle mass, even though body weight did not change, according to the study.

Shock findings! Testosterone gives and advantage! Who knew?!

The nonsense of even having the discussion, when women would be disqualified if they took testosterone because of the advantages it would give them.

Will there not be a rash of women taking testosterone and trying to mask test results now? It's a fucking travesty.

I can see a case going to CAS where a female runner claims the 'right' to her full 5nmls.

For complaints about Ben Hunte's 'analysis' www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint

Mockers I would support that female athlete.

Why should female athletes have their competitive career reduced to merely being set dressing to celebrate the identity of a trans athlete? They're athletes, not a counselling service. The sexism in this is appalling, women are not regarded as people at all, never mind considered to be doing serious sport. Just props in male lives, who'd better be useful or at the very least compliantly silent.

"I can see a case going to CAS where a female runner claims the 'right' to her full 5nmls."

It wouldn't make much if any difference, because the real advantages come from having XY chromosomes and all that they provide - in the womb, after birth and then at puberty.
Men have narrower pelvises, which in turn gives a more efficient stride pattern, stronger bones, greater muscle mass, less fat, larger heart and lungs, longer limbs, more red blood cells, which are able to carry more oxygen around the body, thus giving a higher VO2 max and a better cardiovascular system.
All sports should divided into male and female - XX and XY chromosomes - anything else is a failure to recognise biology.

I think the testosterone Levels had been about 13, then 10, thankfully now 5. Women's average level is 3 I think. So still higher. Though women's can vary.
Thank God. Some sense at last.