Amber Rudd says 'sexist' Brexiteers are backing Boris Johnson's deal 'because he's a man'

[DoctorAllcome]

This is an article on Yahoo News today.
It’s a given we have sexism here in the US (no female president yet), but I thought sexism might be less prevalent in U.K. because you’ve had female PMs and Queens. What do you UK moms think about Amber Rudd’s statement?

uk.news.yahoo.com/amber-rudd-sexist-brexiteers-boris-deal-130112906.html

Here’s a bit of the text:
“Amber Rudd has accused Brexiteers of sexism over their support for Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal.

The former Work and Pensions Secretary, who resigned from the cabinet last month in protest at the Prime Minister’s approach to Brexit, claimed there was a “whiff of sexism” about the way Brexiteers were supporting his deal despite its similarities to Theresa May’s proposals.

BBC Radio 5 Live host Emma Barnett asked why members of the European Research Group of MPs would accept the deal from him and not Mrs May, and suggested it was because “she is a woman and he is a man”.

“It’s difficult not to share that view,” Ms Rudd responded.”

I'm certain it's a part of it.

@downbutnotout2018
I agree with your glass cliff analogy. I feel like May did 90% of the work hammering out a solution but because the boys in ERG wanted some icing on the cake, they pushed her out and put a fellow man in place to put the icing on and pass the entire cake off as his own miracle save.

I’m not claiming Boris is better but it can’t be denied she was bad in terms of being PM like. I think most people recognise she did get a shit hand and her competition at the time will feel they dodged a bullet.

I think the only reason for the increase in enthusiasm for what can only be a marginally a different deal is it’s crunch time and any form of Brexit at all won’t happen at all if we miss the date by the way the wind is blowing. Would have been cancelled ages ago without Corbyns assistance

When in the home office TM failed in her promise to reduce immigration- I think it was something like 230,000 pa. Had she succeeded we would probably not have had Brexit. She also shafted the police for some reason, maybe she got ticked off by PC Plod for running in the corn field, hence our terrible crime figures. She has no personality or sense of humour, needed to bring others on board, no PM material imv.

P.S. I do think there is sexism at work, we only get a female PM when we are up the creek and none of the boys want the job.

I always thought allowing May to be PM was a classic glass cliff scenario. After Cameron ran away from dealing with the results of his own incompetence, the next PM was being handed a poisoned chalice and unlikely to succeed, so they were happy to sacrifice a woman to the role. The whole thing is full of sexism, but they'll use Priti Patel and others to prove they are diverse.

FTA, Johnson has given it an end date of 2yrs after the end of the transition...so 4yrs total. One little pen stroke.

Actually thats a fairly significant concession that wasnt given to May. Had it been given to May i have no doubt the working agreement would have got through Parliment (at least had a much better chance). The rest of the WA was a reasonable compromise but tying the UK to the EU indefinitely if EU decided to play silly buggers was never going to get the support of any MP who want out or any MP that believes in preserving the independence of Parliment.

If there is any sexism in play its on Europe's part for failing to make that concession to May. But i suspect they didnt want to make it unless they felt they had to. They now know they werent going to get the WA through Parliment and Boris seems determined to out suddenly there was more incentive to make that concession.

Absolutely. And while the UK may be a little sexist (especially in politics), some European countries (and the EU negotiators) are a whole lot worse.

I really don't find the glass cliff theory here convincing. I don't think any of them care whether it was a man or women who failed, as long as they didn't fail themselves.

I would imagine that it’s more likely down to desperation than sex. I do think that they would be more willing to do what boris says in general but again I think that’s more down to characteristic difference. May just wasn’t capable of pushing people around the way he does. I think few people could measure up on that particular front. No offence to boris of course.

@Volcano
Yes, but I don’t think the EU has agreed to BJs time limit yet (that I know of). I agree if the EU agrees to it, it is a significant concession that was not given to May despite her asking.

I could only find a U.K. Guardian article that is saying Johnson has conceded to the EU demands for NI to stay in the EU customs union and for a Irish Sea border. It says the DUP don’t like this.
“Earlier on Tuesday, Michel Barnier had set Johnson a midnight deadline to concede to EU demands and agree to a customs border in the Irish Sea or be left with nothing to take to the Commons.”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/boris-johnson-close-to-brexit-deal-after-border-concessions

It says that May rejected these EU demands earlier.

Interesting more sexism....the woman has nonsupport so is actually the tougher negotiator but the man has support so he feels secure enough to concede to the EU and still get a deal through the commons.

Tbh I think that concession was always going to ellude TM while she played nice and asked for extensions etc. Boris has only got it because he ran the clock down and looked to the EU like somehow or other he might just be crazy or cany enough to pull off a no deal brexit (despite the Benn act nearly sabotaging that). Thats partly because Boris is Boris and none is quite sure if he is an idiot or a very clever act. Either feels (and probably is) a lot more dangerous than May. Its only now that EU is started to feel the pressure on them of no deal Brexit.

Boris always said he wanted a deal. The WA was always closer to passing than it looked on paper. TM really should get the credit for what she did achieve in the WA. Sadly that probably won't ever get recognised.

I don’t for a second think it’s about sexism. He’s clearly just better at getting along with people.

Boris has charisma. Theresa May didn’t. It’s largely about relationships, and the ability to charm people helps enormously.

“Allowing May to be PM”. How completely belittling of her. She decided she wanted the job, felt that she was up for it and I guess did it to the best of her abilities. She didn’t have to do it. Do you think she saw herself as a pawn? I doubt it. So why do you?

@volcano
Boris has only got it

HAS he got it? I don’t know if the EU have agreed to it- do you have a reference saying the EU have?
I just read on the Independent that he missed the midnight deadline last night and now the EU council are saying it’s too late to have any WA with Brussels before Brexit day. So it’s no deal or extension. But, the Telegraph is saying BJ will be asking for an extension.....”if no WA by this weekend” (which is certain according to EU).

@VolcanionSteamArtillery
Boris always said he wanted a deal. The WA was always closer to passing than it looked on paper. TM really should get the credit for what she did achieve in the WA. Sadly that probably won't ever get recognised.

Yes. That is my impression too. That it was more personality conflicts than actual negotiation sticking points that derailed things for TM.

Ive been trying to find the EUs response. I haven't seen anything yet. I wouldnt expect it until very last minute friday. If it comes earlier i'll be surprised.

The north sea border is a difficult thing. It was probably always going to get through with Brexiters but not with DUP. It was a big thing for May because she was realiant on the DUP. Boris Johnson has no majority even with the DUP. By removing the whip the way he did he effectively devalued the support of the DUP at the same time.

Its worth noting that Labour currently hold a good number of leave seat, by so obviously electioneering he really is putting the screws on any labour mp in a leave constituency, many of whom abstained On the TM vote. Im thinking Boris us going for the cross party leave vote as opposed to the DUP vote. Regardless it is deeply decisive and likely to leave deep scars all sides of the house

TM fought a clean battle and lost. Boris Johnson is fighting decidedly dirty. Is that to do with Women vs men or just different characters. I dont really know

@Jillyhilly
*He’s clearly just better at getting along with people.

Boris has charisma. Theresa May didn’t. It’s largely about relationships, and the ability to charm people helps enormously.*

I agree with you, but part of me also says that getting along is a two way street and how much of the personality conflicts TM had with say the ERG and other politicians was down to them having a sexist bias (conscious or unconscious) against her? And how much to her capabilities as a leader?
Good leaders need good followers. Followers bent on mutiny...result in a leader failing even if the leader is a good one.

If there is an extension and BJ is not called upon to resign, then I will be definitely crying sexism. Right now the sexism issues, it’s like a fart...a weird stink has emerged and everyones giving everyone else the side-eye but an extension followed by a pat on the back and BJ being encouraged to stay on would be bullshit hitting the fan.

That it was more personality conflicts than actual negotiation sticking points that derailed things for TM.

No not at all. The problem was totally with the "limitless" back stop. They was absolutely no incentive for the EU to agree to anything trade wise etc post departure. EU could effectively tear up the rest of the working agreement and laugh because the UK would be locked into a limitless the customs union through the backstop anyway. They could say well we'll only let you out the custom union if EU fishing boats are the only boats allowed to fish your territorial waters etc. It really was an epic negotating fail to ever allow that clause to come before parliament.

It was why the first time the WA failed TM went back specifically looking for "reassurance" over that clause.

Its worth noting that Labour currently hold a good number of leave seat, by so obviously electioneering he really is putting the screws on any labour mp in a leave constituency, many of whom abstained On the TM vote. Im thinking Boris us going for the cross party leave vote as opposed to the DUP vote. Regardless it is deeply decisive and likely to leave deep scars all sides of the house
I agree with this. I suspect that there are enough Labour backbench MP's who know that going into an election with their Brexit plan of hoping people are too stupid to spot the gaping holes in their plan will be disastrous. The only real chance they have of getting a majority is to have an election after Brexit is done and they can fight it on other things, including how they are going to continue the negotiations to get what they want.
I did think there was an element of sexism going on, as BJ is basically going to put the May deal before all the compromises the EU made back to Parliament and all those ERG bully boys are going to clap their hands and hail it as a great victory.

I have no great love or respect for TM, but I hope she's laughing like a drain on her country walks or whatever shes doing now, knowing that the ERG posterboy couldnt thrash out a better deal than she did.

Theres i think french negotiator who comments on R4 occasionally. Whilst TM was in power she was all very bolshy a "EU have conceded loads (essentally because any departure from complete free trade and movement is a concession fundamentally contrary to the Core EU values), theres no reason to concede more" etc etc. The last interview was a complete reversal, utter exasperation... Boris is determined for no deal brexit, we've conceded so much its unreasonable of the UK to expect EU to concede further but no deal bexit seems otherwise unavoidable.

I certainly wouldn't bet against Boris getting that back stop limited and if he does, i think the chances of it getting through Parliment are probably quite high

If TM had not taken the advice of her idiot advisors and tried to sneak through the dementia tax (absolutely inexcusable that she should be that far removed from what the public think and what might lose instead of win votes) we would be sailing along on a soft Brexit as we speak. She lost seats, handed power to the DUP and we are where we are.

it can’t be denied she was bad in terms of being PM like.

Unfortunately, most of us have an unconscious bias toward expecting men to be in power. So we expect PMs to look male, act male and be male. This is true in the UK and especially in Europe (and most other places). Angela Merkel is the quirky exception. She is tolerated because she is unique. Add another female into the mix and the boys get all defensive and competitive. Sadly, this meant TM was always going to fail.

I dont think she was necessarily bad in power. She did make an epically stupid mistake calling an election, but i think that was a sign of how disconnected Westminster had become from the real world as it wasnt consider foolish at the time.

At another time she might have made a decent PM. "Dementia" tax was a rare example of the conservative party trying to help the poorest in society. If i need care my house will eventually pay for it. Leaving my DS with SN completely homeless. £100,000 buffer would leave at least enough for somewhere for him to live.