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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Legal challenge to GIDS

39 replies

archery2 · 11/10/2019 22:11

to mumsnet: I know you deleted my previous attempt to report this, and the note on the website said that you'd deleted it because fundraising threads weren't allowed. This my second attempt isn't an effort to spite you but, not knowing your rules in detail, I am hoping that if I do not link directly to the site but simply inform mumsnet users of the legal challenge, that would be ok? But obviously just delete it if not.

So a former GIDS clinician called Susan Evans is hoping to mount a legal challenge to the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust on the grounds that children can't legitimately consent to the experimental treatment of puberty blockers. A mother whose child is on the waiting list for GIDS has joined her, as she's also concerned about the blockers. They are seeking people to contribute money towards the costs of doing this, via the crowdjustice website. [mumsnet if it's the word 'crowdjustice' that's the problem, would you kindly delete just that bit, as it would save my typing all this out again! Thank you]

OP posts:
archery2 · 11/10/2019 22:27

has already raised more than £1000.

OP posts:
scottishbride · 11/10/2019 22:28

Found it and will give what I can. More at the end of the month! As a doctor I am so embarrassed by the lack of clinical governance in this area.
Great article in last months BMJ which brought it to my attention and the enormous ethical negligence in the practice.

OhHolyJesus · 11/10/2019 22:34

FGS I can't find it! Can donate when I get paid if I even did the blood thing.

I invite you to message me OP, if that's allowed.

VinandVigour · 11/10/2019 22:38

Search crowd founder site under the name of the clinician. I will pledge when I have my card details to hand.

AllTheNameAreTakenEvenThisOne · 11/10/2019 23:06

This is great news. Thank you for sharing.

FannyCann · 11/10/2019 23:40

It's growing fast with lots of very generous diggers. At last a challenge to the issues of consent and harm to children.

FannyCann · 12/10/2019 00:24

Transgender trend are discussing it. You might find directions there.

failingatlife · 12/10/2019 00:44

Lots of diggers have dug a deep hope already😁 Thank you to Susie Evans for doing this.

failingatlife · 12/10/2019 00:50

Ohholyjesus check out the other thread linked above. Quick, when its gone, it's gone😉

AnotherLass · 12/10/2019 05:51

The smallness of the targets they are aiming for is disturbing me. Why so little? Maya's said that even to get to a preliminary hearing would be ten grand, and this is surely a more complex case

AllTheNameAreTakenEvenThisOne · 12/10/2019 06:38

The smallness of the targets they are aiming for is disturbing me. Why so little?

The target increases as more money comes in.

Perhaps starting with a low initial target is a tactic to encourage people to donate (as the target looks achievable) or perhaps It's to do with how the crowdfunder works (on some of those sites you can't get the money unless you reach your target) or perhaps they were nervous about asking for loads upfront for some reason.

I don't think that because they asked for a small target up front it follows that they don't expect the bill to be large.

Igneococcus · 12/10/2019 07:23

Several articles in the Times about it today. I'm on a tablet which wont let me do share tokens.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mother-sues-tavistock-child-gender-clinic-over-treatments-r9df8m987

HandsOffMyRights · 12/10/2019 08:46

Can't find it using Susan's name. Can anyone DM me a link?

teawamutu · 12/10/2019 08:47

First target reached already, stretch well underway.

DigGrin

HandsOffMyRights · 12/10/2019 08:50

Found it and donated thanks to the transgendertrend mention upthread.

NeurotrashWarrior · 12/10/2019 10:04

Copying and pasting from the other thread as it's a useful post:

There is a hole being dug, but this is the back story:

'My Story:
I am Susan Evans, I trained as a state registered nurse and psychiatric nurse and have worked in many areas of mental health since the 1980’s. I have also trained as a Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist and currently work in private practice. I was a Senior Clinical Lecturer at the Tavistock and Portman NHSFT and Senior Fellow in Education, University of East London.

During my employment at the Tavistock and Portman I spent a period of years working in the Gender Identity Development clinic for children.
While working there I quickly became concerned about the treatment approach. When I joined the team I had expected that the young people would be assessed in depth and given support and psychological treatment over several years. The alarm bells began ringing for me when a colleague at the weekly team clinical meeting said that they had seen a young person 4 times and they were now recommending them for a referral to the endocrinology department to commence hormone therapy.
It became apparent that there was tremendous pressure on the GIDS staff coming from several directions - the distressed patients, sometimes the families, but most worryingly from the ‘support’ groups and charities, who seemed to be having undue influence on the treatment approach within the GIDS. Senior staff from GIDS have also been on the ‘teams’ at certain charities such as Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence.

I tried to raise my concerns as I questioned the rapidity of the referrals of the young people to the Endocrine clinic.

I also clinically disagreed with the request to fall into line in immediately ‘affirming’ the children's beliefs and also the expectation to write to other professionals using the name and sex the child had chosen rather than the patient who had been referred. (This was in place of following the usual professional clinical stance of holding an open mind and trying to explore and understand with the child all the difficulties they were experiencing, whilst supporting them and their families in their distress and liaising with the referrer and other appropriate professionals).
There was also the overhanging threat mentioned of being sued by a client if staff did comply. As time went on I felt alienated by certain staff within the clinical team, so I took my concerns ('whistle blew') to the Tavistock Clinical Management. There was an internal inquiry in 2004, but despite certain recommendations, nothing really changed and I eventually felt that for my own mental health, I could no longer work in GIDS, but I left worrying about the children and their families. I have now met several people who share our serious concerns about the experimental medicalisation of young people with gender dysphoria.

MRS A
I am the mother of a 15 year old daughter, who is going through a time of gender confusion. She has autism and other mental health issues and I am trying to help her through this distressing experience. With a lack of specialist expertise within our regional Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service, I have agreed for her to join the GIDS waiting list, but with significant reservations.
I have deep concerns that the current clinical approach at GIDS means that my daughter will be subjected to an experimental treatment path that is not adequately regulated, where there are insufficient safeguards, where her autism will not be properly accounted for and where no-one (let alone my daughter) understands the risks and therefore cannot ensure informed consent is obtained.
I am remaining anonymous as I do not wish to expose my vulnerable daughter to the spotlight of media attention over what is a very sensitive issue, both within our family and in the wider community. There are many parents, like me, who are anxiously trying to support their children through an already turbulent adolescence, with the additional distress of issues surrounding identity development. We want the best for our children, but we need this to be from a position of evidence based, not experimental, medicine. Please support me in this case to prevent further harm being caused from this unproven, experimental treatment.

A momentous step in the dark
There have been numerous concerns expressed repeatedly in the media and from reputable professional bodies. Professor Heneghan from the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine concluded in a post in the British Medical Journal dated 25/2/19 : “An Archive of Diseases in Childhood letter referred to GnRHa treatment as a momentous step in the dark. It set out three main concerns: 1) young people are left in a state of ‘developmental limbo’ without secondary sexual characteristics that might consolidate gender identity; 2) use is likely to threaten the maturation of the adolescent mind, and 3) puberty blockers are being used in the context of profound scientific ignorance.”
We wonder whether off-label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms and even death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice in children. “ Many professionals are now highly concerned about the treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents which remain largely experimental. There are so many unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; serious adverse health events, long term effects on mental health, neurological effects on cognitive functioning, the effect on bone density, circulatory systems and sexual functioning in adulthood. We cannot stand by and watch young people be part of an experimental medical treatment that exposes them to very significant risks. We should be providing thoughtful, expert, longer term psychological help and therapy, which research has shown to be helpful for many of these children.

We need your help
We need your support to bring this test case that will ask the courts to establish that children cannot give their informed consent to radical experimental medical treatment. The harm they might suffer could have lifelong consequences. We have brought together an expert legal team and we have now written to the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust and NHS England to ask them to stop this experimental and potentially harmful treatment. We ask you to give whatever you can to help us bring this test case.'

Sunkisses · 12/10/2019 10:35

Thanks for all the Share Token links x

LizzieSiddal · 12/10/2019 11:10

Such an important case, will donate.

severnboring · 12/10/2019 11:53

Isn't it interesting that the Mermaids social media manager is whipping up a margarine-based frenzy (a Flor-ore if you will) just before the story comes out about a clinician and a mother suing the Tavistock GIDS? The story in which Mermaids are implicated?

We should be talking about this case as loud as possible - incredibly important and will be supporting.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 12/10/2019 11:54

The Times coverage of this has been excellent.

severnboring · 12/10/2019 12:10

Yes it has @truthis - what did you think of the editorial? It uses the word 'gender' throughout eg 'as children get older, most have a straightforward relationship with their gender' which leads to two possible interpretations:

a) 'gender' means 'innate property that everyone has' - most of us 'match' and those that don't need to go to GIDS, only problem is when the wrong children get referred

b) 'gender' means 'sex' - well yes, most of us have a straightforward relationship in that we know we just are male or female.

When you grow up female, what's not straightforward is the way you have to learn to deal with the reactions to your female body. (I would call that bundle of stuff 'gender' for want of a better word...)

The editorial reads as if they mean a) - acknowledging the huge issues around risk, consent, and evidence but still fundamentally accepting the concept of the 'trans child'. Shows how compromised language is now that there are two very different readings possible.

And if they didn't mean that then JUST SAY SEX!

Apollo440 · 12/10/2019 12:11

Not sure about the Times using the discredited suicide statistics. Give them all the excuse they need for their actions. Otherwise excellent.

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