Is 'Housewife' an occupation?

[Soontobe60]

First contestant on Mastermind tonight has given her occupation as housewife. Does that mean she is employed by her husband? She looks too old to have children that need looking after, and if she had an adult disabled child then her occupation would be carer.
Surely in this day and age no one claims that their occupation is housewife?

I think some men sometimes just make stuff up about 'what feminists think' to fit their own agenda, tbh.

I think they get annoyed because they are jealous and because it shakes their world view that being employed is important if not crucial.

Indeed it could be the case.

I do agree that it can leave an individual in a vulnerable position if they sacrifice their job to let a partner focus on their career, and it shouldn't necessarily have to be the woman that does this by default. But on the flipside, the mother is going to have to take at least some time off to have the baby, so I can see why they might continue in the routine (in addition to the fact that a lot of women cherish those early months with their newborn and wouldn't actually want to sacrifice them from what I've seen.

There are nearly always going to be elements of risk in a relationship, be it shared finances, or moving in together/buying a house etc. I note that many feminists see it as a sacrifice for a woman to step back from her job, but many other women I encounter seem to view things from a teamwork perspective and seem more interested in how they will function as a family unit.

There have been efforts to find different ways to describe women who do uncompensated housework, because women really do not marry houses.
homemaker.
family manager.
home economist.
home engineer.
lady of the house.
mistress of the house.
No matter what it is called it remains a low status position in most societies.

I would never ever call myself a housewife. I would hate to be seen as someone wholly responsible for a house and housework.

If I didn’t have to work I doubt I would spend my time doing housework, I’d probably have hobbies and take craft/fitness classes and therefore I’d call myself a student.

I’m sure other non working people could call themselves volunteers if they spent some time volunteering.

To be honest there would be very few people who don’t work, don’t take any sort of class or don’t volunteer!

Once you’re over 45 you could call yourself a retiree!

And if they are actually unemployed a more positive label would be jobseeker.

As long as we continue to value people mainly on their economic contribution, we'll always have this problem. Whoever dies with the most toys wins (oh and try to look busy while you're at it). If ever there was a time to reflect on our outcome measurements as a society, now's probably it. We place fuck all value on caring roles (even that of our own children) and then wonder why we have a mental health crisis.

I think Borgeous Boheme works quite well as a term for people who actually have very few responsibilities/obligations, like a housewife with grown kids.

My SiL is a housewife. Kids now I’m their 20s. BILs salary is in the millions per year. She has a nice life, lots of travel. I’d call her Borgeous Boheme.

I mean bourgeois. It Auto corrected.

As long as we continue to value people mainly on their economic contribution I suspect that those that are comfortable with being described as housewives don’t.

I described myself as a mother at that time.

I remember watching The Weakest Link years ago, and Anne Robinson asked a contestant what she did. The woman replied "I'm a mother".
Robinson replied "So what? I'm a mother, lots of people are mothers, that's nothing special".

it's so we can all be astonished when a bus driver or a housewife turns out to know something

Yes, wasn't there a cabbie that won Mastermind years ago and astonished everyone?

I am always amazed when women with secondary age children or older choose not to work and to rely on their husband or partner to support them financially. I truly don't think you can ever have an equal society with men doing their fair share of housework and childcare if some women choose not to contribute financially. You see endless posts from SAHM on MN who object to wife work and housework. In my opinion, the guilt and pressures about domestic stuff stop the minute women have paid work. I insisted on a cleaner who also did the ironing. My sons helped from an early age with cooking and shopping. My husband always pulled his weight.
Everything felt more equal as soon as I went back to work. I think my children enjoyed having responsibility. They grew up, using the washing machine and sticking on the dishwasher. They enjoyed time and space to themselves at the end of the school day. They liked the fact that I was busy and so I didn't depend on them for company.
I am with you OP. Until women and men share being the breadwinner and share domestic responsibilities you will never properly have an equal society.

The woman replied "I'm a mother".
Robinson replied "So what? I'm a mother, lots of people are mothers, that's nothing special".

Would have been awesome if the woman has gone ‘ how would you know given you lost custody of your 2 year old due to alcoholism ‘

I completely agree with you @Soontobe60 . I do think that MN has more than its fair share of housewives and permanent SAHMs with adult children than other sites. You see endless moans on here from unhappy women who feel unappreciated stuck in a domestic rut and I want to shout, get a job. The number of women who work in paid employment is rising all the time. Contributing financially and helping support a family is a grown up responsibility. In my opinion, and others may not agree, it makes for happier, healthier families.

You see endless posts from SAHM on MN who object to wife work and housework. In my opinion, the guilt and pressures about domestic stuff stop the minute women have paid work.

I work full-time and our house is a very 50-50 split but this is obvious bollocks for many, many women. Plenty of those MN posts are about women who work and still carry the mental load and work. As I say, we both work and try and split things evenly but I wouldn't say that 'the guilt and domestic pressure stop' because I work - there's a lot of stuff that has to be done, and doing it all around work is it's own pressure. And that's with a partner who does his share (and DH does more than his share, though that's because he works shorter hours than me) - for an awful lot of women going back to work isn't going to mean their partner does half the domestic work. Sometimes that's for good reasons (he works away, works much longer hours, doesn't exist), sometimes for bad (he's selfish, lazy and sees it as women's work) but study after study shows that most women do the bulk of domestic work even if they work full-time.

I described myself on a form like this last week.
Until 6 weeks ago I had a job and indeed worked full time whilst bringing up 3 children. I walked out of my job as it was the most awful job.
I am being supported by my dh whilst I consider my next move. I don't class myself as unemployed. My youngest is at secondary school. Bit stumped as there wasn't a "none of your business" box.

@LisaSimpsonsbff , but until women in paid work becomes the norm, attitudes will be slow to change. I am not talking about someone who has a short career break to change jobs or a parent who stays at home for the early years. Whilst there are lots of 'housewives' around, many people will continue to think that housework is the job of the wife. If we want real change and a really equal society, then we need to assume that most women work. So many other ingrained, aspects of society have changed for the better. There used to be a time when no one bothered much with the education of girls because they were going to, ultimately, be housewives. Domestic science was taught in girls schools, how to iron, how to wash clothes. Thankfully, that attitude has gone. It is why I find MN posters who want to lay claim to the title 'housewife' really depressing.

People with paid jobs don’t have this level of scrutiny... some jobs may not involve that much ‘effort’ or it may be seasonal. Do we ask why company directors don’t manage their own schedule and have more of them (to compensate for the time taken) because division of labour where their assistants are mainly women perpetuates stereotypes?

Why agonise over the term ‘housewife’? There is a huge range of busyness same as people in many paid jobs - company director, consultant in various specialist areas (eg business), self employed...

I truly don't think you can ever have an equal society with men doing their fair share of housework and childcare if some women choose not to contribute financially.
so your feeling is housewives are responsible for inequality

What a powerful role they play.

What you choose to do with your life, employed, or unemployed really is not driving that. It’s ludicrous to suggest that the work a housewife does damages society because she receives no salary for it (though may save £££££s more than she could have earns). Particularly blinkered if you feel she would be a positive role model if she did the same work as an employee.

mrsmuddle instead of being "amazed" at these women - and I'm damn sure you don't mean this as a compliment - and their choices can't you just accept people do what works for their family? I'm a SAHM to an 11 year old and left a pretty high flying career when I had her. It was completely incompatible with being a mum, no prospect of cutting out the travel or going part time. So for her primary years we agreed I wouldn't work as a new job and it's part time salary weren't worth it.

I'm looking at returning to some kind of work soon however in the meantime as DH hasn't had to consider childcare in those years his career has taken off. This could not have happened for him if we were both working and he knows the short term sacrifice I've made to allow this. With one salary we're not rich and never will be, we have to cut our cloth accordingly.I contributed significantly more to the family coffers pre motherhood and our finances are such that if the worst happened and we were to separate I'd be ok. And I'd be back at work too.

So it's worked for us and it sounds like your plans have worked well for your family and as women, that's good to hear. But your posts come across as judging others for what's worked for them, claiming our choice makes for a less happy and healthy family.

And definitely don't guilt trip someone like me for society not valuing "housewife work ".

My DH is a house husband. We use that box on forms etc. Recently had a problem with a form because it wasn't available but if you put unemployed you had to provide proof which of course he doesn't have as he's not on Job Seekers/ Universal Credit.

For one member of a couple to stay home as an absolutely valid choice, and grumpy comments about it are one of the things that puts me off (some strands of) feminism.

As long as we continue to value people mainly on their economic contribution, we'll always have this problem.

Not only this but there needs to be a fairer understanding of what an economic contribution is.

People who care for their own children or elderly relatives are making a substantial economic contribution. People who spend time volunteering, running classes and clubs for no personal financial reward are making an economic contribution. Money the government is not spending on caring or education or picking up litter or keeping community gardens is money that can be spent on other things.

Has the OP stated yet what the woman should have said?

In your own case OP I think you could say 'retired'

Mastermind should drop the occupation question and find out more about what the contestant does in his/her spare time e.g.

Emma is from Wigan and is a keen cyclist.

Thomas lives in Devon and plays ten pin bowling in his spare time.

Arnold exactly - imagine if all the "housewives " or whatever we call them suddenly stop spending the odd hour listening to kids read in school or couldn't give up days to chaperone on school trips! There would be an impact many of us would notice.

No because otherwise I would have two occupations as would all working women.

Nothing wrong with having two occupations, surely?

It is why I find MN posters who want to lay claim to the title 'housewife' really depressing.

And I find posters who regard paid work outside the home as the only way to gain "equality" and who do not value the vital work done by carers (whether of small children or the sick or old) depressing. Society will never change for the better while we maintain this attitute.

Let us call ourselves that if we want to; it's self-worth that really counts and it's so important that those of us who choose to stay home (or can afford to; unfortunately it's often not a choice) stop thinking of ourselves as mere skivvies.

Self worth comes from inside, not from the work you do. A rubbish collector is just as important (in many caases, more) as a CEO. If rcs were to go on strike we'd soon realise this.

If I didn’t have to work I doubt I would spend my time doing housework, I’d probably have hobbies and take craft/fitness classes and therefore I’d call myself a student.

It's what I did. I wrote books. Later, they were published and I have made, over the years, hundreds of thousands of pounds/euros and am still, though a retiree, making 5 figures a year from writing.

I suppose, saying that, I immediately earned a heap more respect than when I wrote that I was a housewife.

Why?
It's because we are subservient to money. It's the only thing that counts for some people. Thus unpaid work is by default less important.

In my younger days caring for my kids and making them a cosy and warm home was by far the more important task and it's only when they left home that writing predominated. But still, I enjoyed being in my own four walls and not subservient to an employer.

Even when I called myself a housewife, I certainly did not spend my entire day doing housework. But I know women who do (mostly super efficient Germans!) , and they have very nice well cared for homes and good for them. My home is a little untidy as I am definitely not a domestic goddess.

I did go back to work outside the home when I was in my 60s. I hated it, and couldn't wait to retire. On official forms, when asked for occupation, I enter retiree, not writer -- even though the latter would be just as valid.

We are all different. Let's not put people into boxes.
And as I said earlier, let's not replace one stereotype with another: instead of the housebound mother at home, the busy career woman juggling home and work. I think we all work out individually what's right for our particular situation.