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Original poster

Man convicted for upskirting woman on London Underground

33 replies

BeardedVulture · 26/09/2019 16:10

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/26/man-sentenced-in-one-of-first-english-upskirting-convictions

Apparently this is one of the first convictions of this kind. The perp was caught red handed by a cop.

Do you think this will put people off upskirting? I'd like to hope so but doubt it, as it's an easy crime to get away with, especially as many victims are unaware what has happened at the time; and I'd bet many of the creeps doing this would see it as a victimless crime. A voyeur who targeted a friend of mine certainly thought so and showed no remorse even when he was being set down and his career was in ruins). This guy just got unlucky because he did it in front of a an off duty cop who was on the ball.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 26/09/2019 16:16

Hopefully it will help, at least. The piece says the man's life has been 'destroyed' by his actions (which he claims were a one off but who knows). Smallest violins ... he is a former government lawyer. Good to know someone like that couldn't wriggle out of it with a caution.

Original poster
BeardedVulture · 26/09/2019 16:18

Apparently his marriage is on the rocks. Diddums.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 26/09/2019 18:52

I don't think I can find a violin tiny enough.

BarbaraStrozzi · 26/09/2019 20:46

That's 'cos I'm already playing it, Eresh.

Hooray for the verdict. But reading her impact statement - poor woman. It really brings home how this sort of shit screws you over psychologically.

Babdoc · 26/09/2019 22:56

I live in trousers, so this isn’t a problem I will ever have, but I’m delighted to hear of a successful prosecution!
Let’s hope for plenty more high profile, well publicised court cases - it may have a salutary deterrent effect.

derailtrainpervs · 26/09/2019 23:19

many of the creeps doing this would see it as a victimless crime

I bet the guy who touched my bum on the train thought similar. In reality, it ruined my day. Only by regarding women as not-people can a crime against a woman be victimless. Men who upskirt hate women.

Inebriati · 26/09/2019 23:26

Man who just happens to be a a former government lawyer.

traceyracer · 27/09/2019 00:28

In this case he used his phone, but one of the problems is that as technology improves over time, small spy-cameras become much more affordable and have better quality.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 27/09/2019 08:17

A good result. Man pays the price for his crimes rather than getting away with it.
I wonder how difficult it will be to prosecute without witnesses though.

littlbrowndog · 27/09/2019 08:33

What a creep. So he went onto the tube ready to take a picture up a woman’s skirt

What sort of man does that
He must have been thinking about all morning when he was getting ready to go to work ,walking to the tube and then selecting his victim

And he said he had never done it before !

Shit why do men does this creepy stuff

HandsOffMyRights · 27/09/2019 08:48

I hope it does set a precedent - but I doubt it.

Did you see the thread on a safeguarding talk where the trainer made light of upskirting?

Perhaps now the OP can point the trainer to this story and remind the trainer that not only is this a disturbing act, but that it is also a criminal offence.

Original poster
BeardedVulture · 27/09/2019 09:25

The case I'm aware of IRL involved a hidden camera, not upskirting. Multiple victims, all of whom felt utterly violated by a man they knew and trusted. He lost his job and his marriage and I think he did some time for it, but he still insisted it was a victimless crime. He really couldn't see what all the fuss was about.

I hope the police will take this as their cue to pursue voyeuristic crimes more robustly. Voyeurism is often the type of offense that serial sex offenders start with, before escalating to other crimes.

OP posts:
LangCleg · 27/09/2019 09:35

But reading her impact statement - poor woman. It really brings home how this sort of shit screws you over psychologically.

Yes. And his mitigation basically being "boohoo my wife got cross about it".

Given the impact statement, I'd liked to have seen a jail sentence.

bd67th · 27/09/2019 09:44

There's no such a thing as a victimless crime. We criminalise things because they harm or endanger others. If a drunk driver gets home without an accident, they still put the other road users at risk and those other road users are victims of reckless endangerment. A tax evader harms us all by stealing from public funds.

The only way that it's possible for a man to consider his crime "victimless" is if he doesn't regard his victim as a person. When we talk about objectification, this is what we mean: he's seeing women as objects to be used instead of humans who will be harmed by his actions.

MaybeDoctor · 27/09/2019 09:55

Despicable footage of him running away after court. You commit a man's crime? Walk away with your head up like a man.

I was on the train the other day after a long journey presenting at a conference. I was wearing a knee-length dress, ankle boots and sheer hold-ups. I was near my stop and stood up to get my suitcase, then temporarily sat down sideways on the seat as I was about to get off. As I was tired, holding my bag and the handle of my suitcase, I must have unwittingly sat down with my legs slightly apart. The young man sitting across the aisle looked at me and I am fairly sure he smirked. Obviously I rapidly closed my legs, but it bothered me enough that I still remember it! The thought of him taking a snap is horrible.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 27/09/2019 09:59

Why are we supposed to care if this man has destroyed his own life by committing a crime? He should have thought of that before he started sticking his phone up women's skirts.

VictoriaSpongeAndTea · 27/09/2019 10:07

What an amazing coincidence, the first time he's ever 'upskirted' he happened to be caught by an inspector Hmm

I might be a bit slow but I'd never really thought of someone filming up my skirt on an up escalator Shock

ErrolTheDragon · 27/09/2019 10:54

What an amazing coincidence, the first time he's ever 'upskirted' he happened to be caught by an inspector

Except it was actually the first and second times, minimum - this clearly wasn't one opportunistic moment of madness on the tube. He followed the woman and did it again. Deliberate, entirely premeditated. He was shocked and said sorry because he got caught. He tried to worm out of it by asking if he could take a caution - he obviously didn't think it was a serious matter or consider the impact on his victim, he was thinking only of the impact on himself.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 27/09/2019 11:01

That bit made me suspect he's negotiated his way out of charges before.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/09/2019 12:28

'Experts have told The Independent growing numbers of women are being covertly filmed on spy cameras as covert recording technology becomes cheaper and more readily available.
Peeping toms are fitting clandestine cameras in rental and student properties or public spaces including toilets, swimming pool cubicles, changing rooms and tanning salons, in order to obtain explicit photos of women without gaining their permission.'

All made easier by the rise in mixed sex facilities, of course.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 27/09/2019 12:41

Interesting how they mention his life is ruined but not that of his completely innocent wife and child. I hope she LTB. He obviously decided that getting his jollies was more important than his life, marriage and career.

What a piece of despicable scum.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 27/09/2019 12:41

Hurrah for Inspector Scottow though.....

Hellmistress · 27/09/2019 13:23

I suspect the reason these perverts believe it's a victimless crime is because their prey are unidentifiable. Women appear to be just a collection parts to them.

The ease of secreting cameras in loos and changing-rooms is one of the reasons women in South Korea took to the streets recently. I feel like doing the same...

TemporaryPermanent · 27/09/2019 13:30

I was goosed at my own door once, by a man who has form for it (he did it to a TV reporter once so it's on film.) It was the most nothing of moments, obviously I didn't report it. I doubt he thinks of it as a crime in any way.

Except that 12 years later I am still tense standing at my own front door, every single fucking day.