How should we treat trans people?

[coffeeplease16]

I have been browsing the feminist thread with interest and been reading lots of arguments that accepting trans = encroaching on women’s rights and women’s only spaces. If you yourself believe that you can’t change sex, and being a women = having a vagina - how do you think we should include trans people in our society? I am genuinely interested, and not meaning to be goady. What is the ideal - how can we protect the rights of women without ostracising trans people from our society?

Actually I'm pretty sure the world would be better off without any (more?) 40 page threads about fat people on planes. Wouldn't make an effort to shut them down but I'd definitely go out of my way to avoid them.

I would happily see any further "child parking spaces" thread shut down tbh.

Actually I'm pretty sure the world would be better off without any (more?) 40 page threads about fat people on planes. Wouldn't make an effort to shut them down but I'd definitely go out of my way to avoid them.

Haha! I don't care one way or the other.

As we all know. I am referring to threads that look like an episode of Just A Minute because they've gone to forty pages in a day because they have been filibustered to death with pointless repetition, hesitation, deviation. Not about differing opinions.

But what about the thing you just said? Can you say it again in slightly different words? And what about this other completely irrelevant thing? And also, that thing I said 5 pages ago, let's go over that again, yeah?

What, you still haven't changed your minds? Echo chamber!

(Flounces promising never to return, comes back the next day.)

.

My view is that before the proposals re self Id, I was happy about trans people being able to change their birth certificates , and given there were so few, the toilet, changing room stuff never seemed an issue.
Now, I’m absolutely fine with adults transitioning - in some ways. I’d always respect pronouns etc, I believe they should not suffer discrimination BUT I do not like the TWAW stuff. There HAS to be a recognition of biological reality. I also think that given the huge number of categories included in definition of “trans”, and that a diagnosis of GD is not required, it’s almost become a “lifestyle” choice. This means that I now believe trans women should NOT be allowed general access to women only spaces as it’s a gift for predators, be they genuine trans or not.
This is the shame of the TRA agenda. Those few people with real GD relied on the support and trust of women. Now, I’m not prepared to risk it for any cross dressing autogynephile that feels like getting a quick thrill in the public pool changing room.
And transing kids must stop.

I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when I heard that the GRA had been passed. I remember the feeling of dread at the thought that such lies were being allowed.

Fairly typical, don't like what women have to say so you silence them.

Yes, anti-woman activists of various flavours coming on here to derail threads is a very popular tactic for silencing women. How dare FWR regulars want to talk about topics that interest us? This cannot be allowed, quick, deploy the sealions to steer the thread in other directions. Women must never under any circumstances be allowed to talk about things that we're concerned about.

The only thing I really got out of the last 20 pages was "look most trans people pass, OK? for real, and this is important somehow".

Which, like a. not really, b. Specsavers, and c. even if true still wouldn't address the issues of child sterilization, sports, etc.

Indeed.

Indeed - to the extent that in future the argument about 'passing' should be met only with the acronym ABC.

And B, especially B.

The emphasis on passing speaks volumes about the priorities of some individuals. ABC is right.

I want the GRA repealed pronto. Sex based rights retained and actively enforced and trans people treated with dignity and honesty. That includes not lying or patronising them with fictional nonsense about gender.

Transpeople should be treated like people. Which they are. Women still need safe spaces though, so I think that 3rd spaces are necessary for transpeople who are not happy using the toilets etc of their natal sex.

They may not be able to compete in sports. They can take part in sports but need to compete in their natal category. If that means transwomen don't win against men, then they don't. If that means transmen can't compete against women because of the testosterone, then they can't.

Transpeople don't get extra rights.

And generally, no they don't pass.

We can protect the rights of women by actually having a definition of women that is science-based and not ideology-based. 'Adult human female' vs the circular 'a woman is someone who feels like a woman' (with no such assault on the definition of 'man', of course).