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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More propaganda from Mermaids

93 replies

Qcng · 22/09/2019 09:43

Came across this in The Mirror, obviously written by Mermaids.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/my-girl-became-youngest-trans-20138358

Not quite sure how to phrase this but it looks to me like another young child's life has been ruined for a publicity stunt, a vanity project for the parents and Mermaids. "Youngest trans child ever".

I simply do not believe most of what was written, ot things actually happened the way the article describes. I just feel really really sad for that young child.

Being a fantasy Disney Princess is not being a girl!

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 23/09/2019 23:22

Children are just preprogrammed to trust their parents.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 23/09/2019 23:23

Good parents protect their children from the media, especially if those children are already extra vulnerable.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 23/09/2019 23:35

But how else will she get famous!

Verysadpants · 23/09/2019 23:44

CharlieP, willing to bet most 2 - 3 year olds know if they are a boy or a girl.

OldCrone · 24/09/2019 00:29

willing to bet most 2 - 3 year olds know if they are a boy or a girl.

But what does being a boy or a girl mean to a child of that age? If they are brought up to know that boys and girls can play with the same toys and wear the same clothes, why would a child that age want to be the opposite sex? What do they think would be different about their lives?

BeMoreMagdalen · 24/09/2019 01:22

VerySad, you have my sympathy. And tbh, your family's nightmare predicament is one of the reasons I keep at this, because you and your child have not received good advice or care, and it's a scandal of epic proportions that this has got this far. Look, it's horrible to have a child with a mental health issue, and I am 100% convinced that the feminists here want the very best for you and your kid. Which is why we will continue to speak out about the stream of wicked lies being told by Mermaids and their ilk. Not because we hate you or your kids. Wanting your child to not end up further mentally and physically ill is not a manifestation of hate.

StrangeLookingParasite · 24/09/2019 01:29

Gee - a frilly frock is what makes your sex your sex!

I'm womaning wrong again.

CharlieParley · 24/09/2019 02:45

CharlieP, willing to bet most 2 - 3 year olds know if they are a boy or a girl.

Please note that I didn't say they don't know if they are a boy or a girl, but that children that age do not have an awareness or understanding of sex as both a reproductive class and in terms of the different roles males and females have in that plus the associated stereotypes. The latter in particular happens at the end of the forth year and from that point onwards, children can develop rather rigid ideas of how boys and girls should be. These ideas however vary across space and time - sex stereotypes can differ hugely depending on which culture a child grows up in.

From about 18 months old, in a typical family where the child has someone caring for them in a mother and a father role, children begin to consciously differentiate between these two people and to observe differences between the role either parent figure takes up in caring for the child.

There is no transference from that onto the child's self, no identification with either sex, there is simply a child-mother and a child-father relationship. There is also no identification with peers or siblings of either sex at this stage.

Between 24 months and 42 months, the child begins to identify with one parent more than the other. This is an entirely flexible identification and has nothing to do with the child's actual sex. Most children who are looked after by their mothers for instance will first identify with the mother, but a child with a healthy attachment with the father will also identify with the father at some point.

This is an incredibly important time as children start to learn to love another person, beyond the self. Towards the upper end of this time is when the toddler's predilection for narcissism tends to lessen - empathy develops, a fledgling awareness of right and wrong and that others also have needs.

During this time the child frequently wishes to emulate the parent it identifies with, no matter whether this is the opposite-sex parent or not. This is not a sign of a rejection of the child's own sex, but merely the subconscious wish to become what it admires and loves. More than anything, at this stage, the child attempts to emulate, to be both, mother and father, without actually wishing to be male or female.

It is only after that stage, as I said, from 3 and a half years onwards that the child starts to develop a true understanding of its own sex, of sex role stereotypes, of the social coding that assigns behaviours, activities, personality traits, clothing and other matters of appearance preferentially to one sex over the other.

As long as these traits are not harmful to the child or others, it is vitally important to allow the child to choose freely from those, no matter what sex it is. The more rigid the environment it experiences, the more difficult it will be for the non-conforming child. For some non-conforming children growing up in households or social environments that rigidly police and enforce sex stereotypes, this is when conflicts arising from the child's own preferences vs societal expectations can damage the ongoing developmental process of the child's understanding of being male or female.

Depending on the child's familial circumstances, there are variations in this process, such as with single parents or same-sex couples, a child's illness or the loss of one or both parents.

The most damaging of those variations are where parent figures are abusive from an early age. As the child's wish to emulate a parent is rooted in its admiration and emerging love for them, abuse requently interferes with this particular aspect of the child's normal development.

It is therefore entirely unsurprising just how frequently the narratives of transsexual adults feature an abusive childhood.

That does not mean all who identify as trans were abused, of course, but it is one reason why those who were abused may later on identify as trans.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/09/2019 02:58

Can I just say how nice it is to hear from people who actually have some knowledge of child development for a change?

Pota2 · 24/09/2019 06:05

That is absolutely awful verysad. Your child and you have been so badly let down. How on earth can it be allowed that a child gets blockers without some very intensive counselling to deal with the root of the problem. I think a lot of the pro trans rhetoric from Tories comes from not wanting to fund proper care. De-medicalise trans and there’s no need. Self-ID is very cost effective.

I hope that things get easier at some point and that your child reaches some peace whether that is living as the opposite sex or detransitioning. However, the blockers prescribed basically shut off the chance of the latter which is why I think it is so bad that they are being given to such young children.

OrchidInTheSun · 24/09/2019 07:18

That is bloody shocking @Verysadpants. I wish you were the first parent I'd heard say that but your experience seems to be very common.

Tyrotoxicity · 24/09/2019 12:57

No two or three-year-old has an actual awareness let alone understanding of sex btw.

Except for those unlucky few who were subjected to adult sexual behaviour at that age. No understanding, but awareness is there. Memories are still laid down. Unfortunately your hard-line position is necessary to protect all children from predators, because no two or three year old should ever have an awareness of explicit sexual behaviour.

Awareness of gendered behaviours and where one fits into them starts getting socialised in (or out) pretty early on, but again, the understanding is not there.

Fekko has it. We trust our parents, and we trust the adults our parents tell us are safe. That's normal for mammals. Unfortunately we're telling them the screen that gives access to explicit sexual behaviour is effectively a 'safe adult'.

Tyrotoxicity · 24/09/2019 12:59

Flowers Sadpants. It's appalling how badly the system is failing your child.

0lga · 24/09/2019 13:32

I distinctly remember both my sons being very proud when they learned to pee standing up. So about 2.5-3 years old IIRC.

There were lots of comments like

I’m big now I can pee standing up. Can you do this mummy ?

No I can’t because I don’t have a penis like you. I have a girls bottom called a vulva.

Can I see it ?

No you can’t because it’s private and I don’t show it to people.

Are you sad that you don’t have a penis and can’t pee like me ?

Well sometimes I think it would be handy to pee like you but no I’m not sad, because girls bodies can do other things, like grow babies inside them, like I grew you. Or feed babies like I fed you.

Why can’t can’t I grow a baby in my tummy, I want to be a mummy ?

You can’t be a mummy because you are a boy and you will grow up to be a man. Men can’t grow babies, only women. But you can be a dad if you want. Dads and mums can do lots of the same things.

Then they would forget it all and randomly ask another relative( often female ) “ can you pee standing up ? “ or “ do you have a penis like me grandma”.

Most were fairly cool and I’d have to say quickly “ remember we talked about this, grandma is a lady”. And whisk them away while grandma muttered “ why can’t you just say little man ...”.

So I’m very clear that they had no clear link between external appearance ( of looking like a man or a lady ) and genitals and biological function.

I remember they often assumed that all adult men and women were parents because all the men and women they knew were someone’s parent. Or had another clear role in their like a nursery worker.

They got confused when they saw the teacher in the supermarket with her children because she wasn’t a mum she was a teacher. Even though I ( their mother ) WOTH .

So I’m very very clear that they knew if they themselves were boys or girls but didn’t link that clearly to genitals or social roles.

If I’d brought them up telling them they were girls and everyone around them did the same, they would have believed that. Much like the child in the newspaper article.

BTW before someone points it out - I KNOW that it’s not genitals determine your sex, it’s your sex that determines you genitals. It’s just that chromosomes are a teeny bit abstract for a three year old.

Needmoresleep · 24/09/2019 13:37

Charlie, that makes sense.

DD was a failing to thrive baby, regularly in serious pain. She essentially missed her first two years of social development, and would have just been aware of me, her dad and her brother, and lots of medical staff.

As she started getting better her dad took both DC on a holiday with his family for a week. There were a lot of boy cousins of about DS' age. This was probably the first time DD had attempted to play, and she came back convinced she was a boy, and that play involved rough and tumble. This continued till about the age of 8. She played football with the boys, fought with the boys, went to their parties. She refused to wear girls clothes or play with anything "girly", indeed would throw a complete tantrum if you reminded her she was a girl.

By 10 this had changed. Her friends were nice straightforward sporty girls who had given up pink and started wearing jeans, and there was no more talk of her being a boy. I think her early socialisation still shows through. She is at ease with both sexes, though seems to have little in common with the cool girls.

God knows what would have happened if we were going through this now. I can only remember one rather odd American school run mum showing her disapproval of my daughter, and a surprising number of glamorous women went out of their ways to tell me that they were just like my daughter when they were young. I assume there would be lots of talk about transgender and lots of judgement.

(To be honest I did not care what DD thought she was. She was alive and not suffering from any long term life limiting illness, that was enough. There is no way I would have allowed my now-healthy child to take hormones.)

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 24/09/2019 14:33

Some little kids are - well, going to grow up to be gay. The won’t know it at the time - how can they at a young age - but why do we now try to ‘fix’ this with surgery and drugs?

Shame we can’t identify future serial killers and rapists with the same certainty as some of these parents and practitioners, eh?

FWRLurker · 24/09/2019 15:19

Age 2-3 is the age at which children are first capable of understanding that people come in two sexes, including themselves. Of course their understanding of this depends entirely on how and whether they are taught this. If taught the physiological basics, their understanding of sex will indeed be accurate. Being humans however once they can categorize as male or female, children will begin to generalize and often become incredibly sexist pretty quickly! That is, they see the gendered clothing and behaviors that are attached to the sexes and start to see this as normal.

That’s where parents need to intervene and TALK about how all that is just window dressing and fashion, and how “silly” people are who say that you can’t do X because of what genitals you have. That it is OK to like “girl things” and “boy things” no matter what sex you are.

It seems nowadays people are using kids’ sexist generalizations - which should be gently corrected - as proof they are trans if the kid is GNC. It’s ass backwards.

DodoPatrol · 24/09/2019 16:07

There was a post the other day about someone's small child thinking that 'the trees waved, and that made it windy', FWRLurker.

Small children are often cute but wrong.

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