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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Dawn Butler’s menopause policies

98 replies

FeminismandWomensFights · 21/09/2019 18:24

Look I think it’s great if employers do more to accommodate the needs of women going through meno.

Not remotely convincing though coming from Labour and Dawn Butler. How will the employers even know who to target for this help- since in their book anyone who wants to can be a woman?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49781137

I’m a lifelong Labour voter and a menopausal woman so I should be all over this. I just feel totally patronised.

OP posts:

DreadPirateLuna · 22/09/2019 15:53

The idea that women should soldier on and if they can't hack it then get out (which is what some posts on here add up to)

Nobody has said that. Women who need help should get it. Flexible hours are good for a variety of reasons, medical or otherwise. Employers should treat their employees like humans instead of robots. Adequate ventilation and cold water should be available to everyone!

The main objection is to the idea that menopause is inevitably a serious medical problem that needs special provisions for everyone that goes through it. Which is not true and is potentially harmful.

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 16:11

OK well you read it the way you read it, I read it differently and am not the only one.

Pota2 · 22/09/2019 16:20

DreadPirate where has anyone, including Dawn Butler, said that this will be something that all women MUST take part in? It is for women who need the support due to the menopause. Currently there are no specific provisions that relate to the menopause which is why many women choose to just give up work altogether due to symptoms. Nobody will frogmarch you to HR to discuss your symptoms or force you to work reduced hours. It will support women who need it. Same as how having a maternity policy doesn’t force women to have children.

DreadPirateLuna · 22/09/2019 16:21

I mean, I really wish there was more knowledge among the general public about migraines, which is not "just a headache" (in my case it comes with visual disturbances and nausea as well as the feeling of a nail pounded through my head), which affects one in seven people, is more common among women, and results in thousands of lost work days across the UK every year. But I don't expect the govt to mandate a special "migraine policy", or to assume that women aged 35 to 45 (the group most susceptible to migraine) might need provision for it.

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 16:25

Yes we got you dreadpirate

We got you the first time

Pota2 · 22/09/2019 16:26

Migraines are an illness that affects some people. I think they would probably be classed as a disability if they were regular and debilitating. Menopause is a natural process but one that causes quite significant issues for some. There is a lack of understanding about it and lots of lack of sympathy and jokes about hot flushes.

How precisely is it going to affect you if women who need greater protection for something that’s currently causing them to leave their jobs get it?

Pota2 · 22/09/2019 16:29

And unlike the migraine example where a certain age group is more likely than others to have them, ALL women will go through the menopause at some point unless they have a medical condition that means they never had periods.

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 16:31

Issues involve

Women talking about squicky stuff rather than quietly leaving in a dignified way and leaving work for the people who are up to it. Ie men, and women who can fit in well enough in a men's world.

10% of women losing their jobs is fair price to pay
Ditto pregnancy related

I mean it's not an illness fgs if you can't cope then get out the kitchen (or back into the kitchen probs)

V important that society is protected from the unwholesome unpleasantness of female biology. I mean, who wants to hear it!

Gone2far · 22/09/2019 16:47

And remember that due to the rise in pension age and other factors, there are more menopausal women in the workplace than ever before
How does raising the pension age do this? The menopause is over by 60?

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 16:52

Women in general are in the workplace in much higher numbers and for longer than before.

A woman leaving at 55 because of menopause was only missing 5 maybe 10 years work, which was not exactly insignificant, all the time the age you actually stop gets longer so those women miss out more (and were already starting behind as women tend to get paid less and have lower pensions). Poverty for elderly women is a serious issue.

EBearhug · 22/09/2019 19:16

The main objection is to the idea that menopause is inevitably a serious medical problem that needs special provisions for everyone that goes through it. Which is not true and is potentially harmful.

Some people fly through pregnancy with few issues; others suffer hyperemesis and so on. Maternity policies mean if you need time off sick, it can't count against you. Menopause policies would mean there's protection for those who need it. If you have a trouble-free menopause, then you would have no need to call on it, but we're not all the same.

Jillyhilly · 22/09/2019 19:36

I am a menopausal woman. This is pathetic. As if I needed another reason not to vote Labour.

I wish there was a libertarian party that I could vote for. Why have we all come to believe that the fucking government needs to get this involved in our lives?

We are so spoiled and bored and bereft of real struggle in the West in the early 21st century that we are now focusing on the terrible plight of menopausal women at work. Amazing.

Pota2 · 22/09/2019 20:22

Jilly ....yet another simpleton who thinks that having protections for those who need it (with very clear evidence that it is needed due to large numbers leaving work because of it) means that she will somehow be forced to use them.

Pota2 · 22/09/2019 20:24

I have a job and a house. For this reason I don’t think we need to have any social security system whatsoever. People are such snowflakes. They should just get a grip and if they are made homeless it’s their own problem.
I wish there was a party I could vote for full of other straight talkers like moi.

Gone2far · 22/09/2019 20:36

On menopause 'Around 3.5 million women aged over 50 years are currently in employment in the UK. Studies have shown that at least of 50% of women have reported as finding work somewhat or fairly difficult due to their symptoms of menopause. Around 10% of women have actually given up work all together as a result of their symptoms.'
with very clear evidence that it is needed due to large numbers leaving work because of it
Could you say where these statistics came from please? It's just that I've never met or heard of a woman that's done this

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 22:00

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/menopause-discrimination-real-thing-bosses-need-get-involved/

2017 telegraph, was just near top when I googled

Part of all this is its still taboo, how many women will be open about saying they are quitting due to menopause, rather than just can't be bothered or something.

Gone2far · 22/09/2019 22:23

I can't find where the author gets her figures, apart from a vague 'studies have shown'

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 22:47

Well maybe look into it then.

I've known women pack in work a few years before retirement with no obvious reason. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Gone2far · 22/09/2019 22:51

I think if you quote statistics it's not unreasonable to be asked to back them up. Which you can't.
I never said it didn't happen, it was you that was claiming it was commonplace. Without evidence, as it happens.

Fraggling · 22/09/2019 22:55

It's from a mainstream UK broadsheet?

Erm ok.

motorcyclenumptiness · 22/09/2019 23:12

Maybe women leave work in their 40s/50s because responsibility for caring for elderly parents falls disproportionately on women. And maybe they don't enter the workplace again because ageism - esp against women - is rife. How about tackling that instead of giving ageist and sexist employers yet another reason not to employ older women!

FloridaOrange · 22/09/2019 23:45

I am a bit torn here as I had bad menopause symptoms. But... just as when I was an adolescent, my natural tendency was to cover up these symptoms, just to show I'm as good as a man. (Yes I would have been diagnosed trans if I was a youngster now).

But still, surely we could have some time off for our stuff, just as men get time off for their stuff eg heart problems, sports injuries.

EBearhug · 23/09/2019 02:46

men get time off for their stuff eg heart problems, sports injuries.

Since when are heart problems and sports injuries "men''s stuff"?

CassianAndor · 23/09/2019 07:40

Florida but that’s the point - you’re saying that in the workplace ‘man’ is the default, what you have to measure yourself up against.

MIdgebabe · 23/09/2019 07:59

I think men do have a great risk of heart attacks and more likely to get them younger ( more likely tsurvive also)

I still think a more compassionate workplace, whatever the reason would be better than a ,enopause policy

and I still think that research as to why menopause is so debilitating for some would be a bloody good idea. I don’t really really believe that its natural ( normal, as nature intended) to have menopause symptoms as bad some people get ( but nature can be a crap designer )

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