Rape stats: 'Most Rapes Are by Female Perps on Males?!'

[MsF1t]

So, some clearly MRA type on twitter posted to say:

'If one defines "rape" in a gender-neutral manner, as "non-consensual sexual intercourse," the percentages of women and men reporting having been raped in the past 12 months are essentially the same, with most of the men raped by a female perpetrator.'

I am no statistician, but I cannot believe this could be true, if only based on the sheer number of women versus men who I know and who are affected by rape. There were 'stats' attached. Does anyone know where these come from and whether there is any substance to them? Not keen to interact with this guy obviously.

Says at the bottom of the item where the results come from. I suspect that its increasing as its no longer taboo for males to report these incidents.

In the past they would not have been taken seriously or would have been too embarrassed to say. These days its more accepted that men can talk about these sort of things.

This is old school MRA stuff from maybe a decade ago. They're really trying to bring this back?

Makes a change from arguing about pronouns I guess, but still, Groundhog Day.

It’s a load of bullshite with the usual twisting and turning that the MRAs do in order to try to persuade society that women are as bad as men. If you look into the so called study further, you’ll see that.

All rape is terrible.

This figure doesn’t say most rapes are by women. It says most rapes of men are by women rather than men.

The vast majority of rapes are inflicted on women.

I can't even be bothered debunking - people already have, just google it.

I kind of miss the old school MRAs - you knew where you stood with them. Agreed that pronouns are getting a bit old hat now.

Thanks- I will Google it later. I do see that it must be horrible for a guy who has been raped to try to deal with attitudes from some people. It's just the idea that the numbers could possibly be so high that I struggle with.

I kind of miss the old school MRAs

me too. and not even MNHQ think they're the most oppresedest ever, so we're generally allowed to treat them with the level of respect they deserve which can be a fun way to pass an evening occasionally.

Somewhat aside, does anyone know how the trollhunting rule came about? It's always seemed really weird to me.

I am 100% sure that even in jurisdictions where women can be convicted of rape that the vast majority of rapes of males are perpetrated by males. It is worrying that some posters are giving this some credence. How do you force a man to penetrate you against his will, anyway?

You know what, in all the shitshow there's part of me looking forward to when the MRAs figure out that the words 'female' and 'woman' are now meaningless.

It is legally impossible for a biological female to rape anyone as the legal definition of rape is

"a person (A) commits an offence if he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis
B does not consent to the penetration and
A does not reasonably beleive that B consents

Anything else is sexual assault.

Whoever has written that has comepletely wrongly misinterpreted the statistics.

The made to penetrate line comes under the "Other Sexual Violence" category, not Rape.

Is that maybe in reference to men who have drunken sex then report it? Otherwise I just don’t see how that would work.

I guess in general, when it comes to assault/rape/power more males tend to be the penetrator. And do so, against the victims will regardless of whether the victim is male or female.
So of those people that somehow force a man to penetrate them (I'm guessing this is a smaller number) - the abuser is mostly female. According to the man. But bearing in mind 'she made me do it' I'm not sure how big the actual number of women 'rapists' (yes I know not technically) is. But any person who has been raped or assaulted deserves sympathy and justice. We can only desperately hope for that one..

This figure doesn’t say most rapes are by women. It says most rapes of men are by women rather than men.

Tbh I'd even query this. Without looking it up, my instinct is to assume that, since this is based on reported assaults, men are more likely to report an assault by a woman than a man. Men feel far more shame about being raped by another man.

I don't know why but that's my understanding. Could be wrong of course.

That first images starts "the majority of male victims who were made to penetrate someone else reported only female perpetrators ...." (my bolding)

So right off the bat they're ignoring the 'non-consensual sexual intercourse' where the male victim was penetrated. Which, call me cynical, strikes me as being the more likely scenario by a long shot.

Sounds to me like they're cherry-picking a tiny number of atypical events. A bit like concentrating all your attention on the extremes of a Bell curve whilst ignoring the vast majority of results falling into the belly of the curve.

How do you force a man to penetrate you against his will, anyway?

I think this can happen in a few ways.

I knew a fellow who had a girl hop in bed with him when he was passed out and started having sex with him. He's told her no earlier in the evening. He didn't consider it rape but I would say it was, though I'd be shocked if it occurred to the girl that was a possibility.

And I suppose a woman could penetrate a man with something, too.

But maybe more sinisterly, there have been cases I've heard of where an abusive woman basically forced the situation in some way and the man's body still did respond sexually. Which would be kind of a mind-fuck.

But as far as I can see none of these are very common scenarios, especially the latter two.

It is legally impossible for a biological female to rape anyone as the legal definition of rape

I think they accounted for that in the post, that you would have to even up the definition. That's not where they've gone wrong.

How do you force a man to penetrate you against his will, anyway?

You tell him you're going to leave him if you don't, which counts as rape if a man tells a woman he will leave her unless she has sex with him.
I don't think it's a huge surprise that, given that most people are heterosexual, in the cases where men are coerced into having sex with their partner, it's usually a female partner.
The stats aren't saying that men are raped as often as women at all (although some people may be interpreting them that way).

How do you force a man to penetrate you against his will, anyway?

I was watching an interview with a man talking about this (in America, where it seems that it would be classed as rape). He had been in bed, passed out drunk with a woman, woke up and she was having sex with him. He was talking about how the view that you've just expressed stopped him from reporting it - that it was a reflex response to stimulation that caused the erection, not an indication that he wanted sex or consented to it.

The NISVS is a random-dial phone survey taken by making calls to random domestic households. The data is an incredibly complex data set and it does not account for those that experienced rape or sexual assault but don't pick up the phone or don't disclose traumatic personal information to a stranger over the phone from the federal government, or the millions that have experienced it and didn't receive a call. Additionally, these data sets do not include individuals left homeless, in shelters, or in temporary housing as a result of being pushed out of their homes by DV in the form of sexual assault and/or rape as the calls are only made to domestic households. (I merely paraphrased the disclosures from the CDC). The questions asked don't refer directly to rape they refer to scenarios that constitute rape. Willfully misrepresenting the CDC's data to say that men are raped more often than women and mostly by women is fucking revolting.

www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/datasources/nisvs/summaryreports.html

I've had the same phone number since 2001 and I've never received a call but yet I I have vivid memories of my experiences. Our somewhat new regular in FWR surely wasn't contacted for these surveys and she is currently homeless due to DV and more. She doesn't have a safe place to rest her head because men have infiltrated the women's DV shelters leaving the women who have been displaced from their homes due to abuse literally out in the cold. The men doing the abusing like the aforementioned regular's ex inhabit the homes from which these women flee. If a phone call came in requesting information for the data set the men who committed the violence/abuse assault/rape are who would have their voices heard - and are not unlikely to twist the narrative to be seen as a victim.

If you look at the source of the data (CDC) and their corresponding fact sheets and summaries it is clear that whatever number-crunching was done as was touched on by OP is HIGHLY disingenuous.

And for clarification, since this is a US poll we must look at the definitions for rape as defined by the DOJ.

Until 2012, the definition was "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will".

Since 2012 the definition is "penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim”.

I got enough of this "poor man" conversation yesterday in the feminists are aggressive thread... also I posted a thread about the recent study done on these data sets.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3695643-US-1-in-16-womens-first-sexual-encounter-is-rape

I can't be bothered to give any weight to MRA manipulation, poor analysis, and dreadfully misleading extrapolation of these complex data sets.

The MRA ignores the female victims of drug- or alcohol-facilitated penetration, which are listed separately but also class as rape in some jurisdictions. Immediately, we go from a past-year victimisation rate of 1.6% to 2.6% for women when that excluded figure is taken into account.

Past-year victimisation rates are not a reliable proxy for lifetime victimisation rates. As discussed on another thread, one American woman in sixteen's first sexual encounter was non-consensual, at average 15, and the perp an average of 12 years older. I consider it unlikely that 15 year old male virgins are "made to penetrate" 27 year old women at a rate of anything like one in sixteen.

The decisions of adult men to prey upon girls means that our lifetime sexual assault victimisation is five times that of men, according to the stickers I've seen telling men than one sexual assault victim in six is male and that they are not alone.

And it's the lifetime victimisation rates that matter. It doesn't matter whether you were raped a month ago, a year ago, or a decade ago, it affects you for life.