You know what? I hope you're all wrong

[TerfTalk]

Yes, I hope that you and I are all wrong about our concerns.

I hope that the other side are correct. I hope that there is a "lady" brain, and a "blue" brain, and a "non-binary" brain. I hope that sterilizing children is the right thing to do. I hope that telling gay and autistic children that they were born in the wrong body was the right thing to do. I hope that gaslighting women was correct. I hope that telling lesbians they were "bigots" was right.

No really, I mean it.

Because if we aren't wrong, if gender is bullshit, there's been a lot of lives lost.

I want to be wrong, and I say this to TRAs all the time.

In that case it appears to mean "pretentious arsehole".

there will also be a big swing towards far-right political groups in the name of protecting children by rolling back rights for LGBT and women.

I strongly agree with the above. The Thermidorean reaction has been troubling me for a long time as it seems the likeliest outcome.

Thermidor has come to mean the phase in some revolutions when power slips from the hands of the original revolutionary leadership and a radical regime is replaced by a more conservative regime, sometimes to the point where the political pendulum may swing back towards something resembling a pre-revolutionary state. In his book The Revolution Betrayed, Leon Trotsky alleges that the rise of Joseph Stalin to power was a Soviet Thermidor.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermidorian_Reaction#Other_uses_of_the_term

What gender critical feminists are arguing for is that your body doesn't dictate your clothing or your interests or your career.

They’re the superficial aspects of gender. Clinics provide physical and biochemical treatments. People can already wear what they like.

Why do you think people need or want these physical and biochemical treatments Fieldofgreycorn?

"'You don't understand Trans things because you're Cis, Mum.'
'No, I'd say from your list I'm probably either agender, bigender, nonconforming or a panromantic demiboi, don't you think? Only they never told us about all these genders so I didn't know it before.'
'You still don't understaaaand, Mum!'"

That is one if the funniest things I have read on this topic!

Yup. Everyone has a gender identity.

Everyone except middle-age women, who are exclusively cis...

Why do you think people need or want these physical and biochemical treatments Fieldofgreycorn?

To alleviate ‘gender incongruence’ (as it is now according to icd11). It’s the only treatment with any evidence.

Its no surprise the FTM trans lobby that is shouting the loudest. Their male privilege means they have never learned that as a ‘woman’ any man has a automatic right to know more about everything than you do.

Any conversation with TRA feels eerily similar to being on the receiving end of a good mansplaination, except that this time in a fucking hilarious twist it’s womanhood that they know more about than we do.

I am generally a 'Liberal' person and it feels weird to be siding with some pretty questionable people and being polar opposite to people who I otherwise largely agree with. I'm not wrong though. And that is really actually very scary.

It is scary at first. And once you get past te initial stage, you start asking a lot more questions about the things going on among the people you agree with about everything else, and discover that maybe it's a bit of a deeper problem. That sometimes "the other side" may actually have some important insights or worthwhile principles to discover. That not all of them are crazies, they have intellectuals who are good people just like your people.

After that it can seem very freeing, and almost like people are actually better than you thought in some ways.

To alleviate ‘gender incongruence’ (as it is now according to icd11). It’s the only treatment with any evidence.

Really? Any idea where I can find this evidence?

they’re going to centre themselves in every bloody conversation.

Oh God oh God oh God late last night when flicking round for something to watch I chanced on a roast of Alec Baldwin It was quite funny, until that person who used to be an athlete married to the Kardashian mother took the podium. Claimed to be a better actor than Alec Baldwin because "for thirty years I made everyone believe I was a man". All the remarks were like that - none about AB, all about themselves. I switched off, flicked back after five minutes when I hoped it would have moved on to someone else but no luck, still banging on about themselves.

I was amused to see that Alec Baldwin was having to put effort into looking interested.

Do people really spend so much time thinking about their gender. I rarely think about mine, I wonder how much time they must waste worrying about their genitals, I would hate to have children who were exposed to this utter craziness.

"Do people really spend so much time thinking about their gender. I rarely think about mine, I wonder how much time they must waste worrying about their genitals, I would hate to have children who were exposed to this utter craziness"

Of course they do, the whole accusation that women care so much about genitals and what is inside someone's pants is projection.

Apologies for going off at a complete tangent, but something I noticed when watching just a few minutes of that show was how the sexual behaviour of daughters and grand-daughters was alluded to all the time, to poke fun at men for not being in control of their female relatives sex-lives. Reminded me of the Russel Brand/Andrew Sachs controversy, that if your female relative has un-approved (by you) sex, it makes you a legitimate target for humiliation.