Margaret Atwood defends women's right to work in strip clubs because she thinks it's 'empowering'

[stumbledin]

Speaking to Emma Barnett on BBC Radio 5 Live's Headliners, the 79-year-old said women who work in strip clubs can 'feel in control of the room' and earn more money than coffee shop staff.

Ms Atwood, whose new book The Testaments was published this week, told BBC Five Live that people protesting against the clubs should 'put their energy somewhere else that's really really important – like with environmental protests.'

The author said it was important to ensure women were not exploited, adding: 'Some of the most empowering women in the American West were the madams who were running the brothels because in that era they were saving up the money up for the girls, they were setting them up after they made that money they were taking care of them and it was much better than having a pimp.'

Ms Atwood also spoke out about different kinds of feminism, adding: 'I don't refuse the label of feminism, I say, 'which kind are you talking about?'

'I am the kind that endorses organisations like Equality Now. I am not the kind that says things like all men should be pushed off a cliff or all that all male babies should be killed at birth.'

(This is the Daily Mail so not sure if accurate transcript. Did anyone listen to the interview?)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7457063/Margaret-Atwood-defends-womens-right-work-strip-clubs.html

The whole ‘happy hooker’ cliche rears its head again. It appears that Courtney555 has her own issues. I would take what she says with a rather large grain of salt. Empowering indeed

I find it is always worth remembering that any multi billion dollar industry uses paid astroturfers on social media as part of their strategy. I also find it interesting to look at timestamps on posting history and compare and contrast where the poster says they're based with where in the world someone would realistically be awake at any given time. I'd also recall that every single sodding thread I've ever seen on any aspect of this (strip clubs, the Nordic model, prostitution in general, porn) attracts brand new posters out of nowhere, again often at odd times of the morning.

StopthePlanet's post on page one was excellent, btw.

Im happy to take most posters as face value

I am happy to believe that there are ‘dancers’ like courtney

What i am NOT happy to accept is that all ‘dancers’ have the same experience

Cos that would be a truly fucking stupid thing to believe

YippeeKayakOtherBuckets

Thank you! I had decided to leave that tell alone hoping someone else would pick up on it. I spend all day dealing with financials and doing analysis so I don't want to engage directly with the topic atm.

/Brain tired

BarbaraStrozzi

StopthePlanet's post on page one was excellent, btw.

Thanks!

And it is 2:48am here (insoooooomnia), thanks body!!!! Been up since 7am but brain is so tired it won't shut down.

'I'm all right, Jack.'

Since when did feminism equate to "I'm fine, therefore fuck off"

Feminism is for every woman , including the ones you don't like, including the ones you don't agree with.

And as far as I'm concerned, if there is even one woman who is being abused and damaged by "sex work", it is one too many.

Is there an entire industry based around the objectification of men's bodies? No? Why is that, do you think?!

Can people please engage their brains on this topic? One person's personal experience do not equate to population analysis. FFS.

I'm in my mid 20s now. I used to work as a shots girl in clubs and bars I would get touched up assaulted in bars full lighting cameras loads of security and I just can't believe that it would never happen to a exotic dancer?

I would make hundreds for few hours work I was covered head to toe as didn't want any unwanted attention but I still got it. I just can't believe that any stripper isn't going to of had some horrible stuff happen to her at some point.

I also then briefly worked for myself and I would go cash up other girls to find them often crying because a guy put his hand down her top and touched her breasts.
I stopped as it became really distressing.

I want to believe that strip clubs are places of respect ect but I can't see it when there isn't places of men stripping aswell which I don't get? I read these threads always wanting to hope my feelings will change. I have two daughters and just want them to grow up in a equal world.

Courtney is a 'chartered accountant' and doesn't know what money laundering is 😂

Is there an entire industry based around the objectification of men's bodies? No? Why is that, do you think?!

And this.
Nobody can ever answer this or the previous question I re-posted.

I'm glad that some people working in such places are happy and not abused. However the existence of such places and the whole concept that women's bodies are a commodity has an impact on my life, how men treat me and the dangers I face. The strip clubs don't operate in some kind of moral vacuum, the men who use them then come out into the world.

Yes, if it's so empowerfulising, how come men aren't doing it.

And yes, I am aware of the existence of the Chippendales - but it is very much a minority thing.

I could never knowingly contribute to the idea that women's bodies are purchasable by men

This, with (nipple) tassels on.

How can taking your clothes off for men to look at be empowering

I really don’t get that

It’s like the only thing that you have as power is your body for men to look at

l thought most strippers only lasted until they were mid twenties. And she managed to carry on after bf her child. No saggy tits for her. Who is this superwoman

That's again, because like everyone on this post, you don't have a fucking clue

Most are late twenties to thirties. Most of us stop somewhere between 33-38. Half of us have children, and no, sadly we don't have saggy tits. Sorry if you do.

Why are there no male strip clubs, look at me being so clever for pointing that out

It's one of the most boring and I'll thought out arguments frequently peddled by the clueless. I'll tell you why there aren't, apart from a few gay strip clubs. Because I'm 5ft 4. Pretty average size. If a 6ft guy sits down and I sit on his lap, it's sexy.

Role reversal. 6ft man sits on me, it bloody hurts. Trust me. I've had enough customers offer to give me a dance to know it doesn't physically work. So that's why women go to stage shows like the Dream Boys, or whatever they call themselves these days. That's what's popular for women, watching from the audience. What's popular for men is strip clubs. Although I did have two regular female customers. Both lesbian.

Oh. And I'm not superwoman. You're just proving my point exactly that you can't bear to accept that it's how it is. For all you know, your midwife is a dancer. Or your lawyer. Or your kids teacher. Like I said I've worked with all those professions.

Some really sad women on this thread. Shameful.

I was just mulling over, if I had all the money in the world, is there anybody I'd pay £480 an hour to talk to?

I've concluded I might pay that to talk to Sheila Jeffreys.

Oh Courtney is a right laugh isn't she? Calling women shameful for being concerned for the welfare of trafficked teenagers.

Oh Courtney, look beyond your own echo chamber. I’m glad that you and your 300 friends found your experiences empowering. But that’s just your experiences. You can read from this thread other women who have not had an empowering experience. Their lived experience is just as valid as yours.

I am just glad I don't have the attention I used to get off creepy men - I feel sorry for the young women of today. As for the strippers, prostitutes - it is their choice and if it stops vile men from attacking innocent women or even raping them - just carry on exploiting desperate men for their cash. It makes me laugh that these men think the women are actually enjoying the sex they have with these creeps!

And anyway. Shame on you, Margaret Atwood.

How can taking your clothes off for men to look at be empowering

Because it's not. Howsabout reading my first post on the first page telling you exactly what's empowering. Or, like everyone else. Gloss over that so you can keep coming out with this rubbish.

It’s like the only thing that you have as power is your body for men to look at

Again. I can keep spelling it out. And you'll all choose to deliberately ignore it. And then Sarah the plumber who's never been a dancer or in a club (but she's read the papers don't you know )will dictate to the people who actually do the job "You think you're empowered because you're naked. Yes. That's it. I know. Consider yourself told."

Just think how stupid that is out loud. Like what we find empowering is hurling our pants to the floor in some "ta daaaaaaaaàaa" moment. That's the only "power we have". Jesus Christ.

I really don’t get that

You don't have too. Because it doesn't matter how repeatedly, coherently, loudly, you'll have dancers tell you how it is. You'll have every fake feminist scoffing at the truth and hunting down anything to support their own opinions.

You are the expert on your own experience, but I don't think you should dismiss the many differing accounts as hysterical journalism flowing from the pens of unattractive middle-aged women.

Look Bitoffun don't go dismissing Courtney like that. She's right. I worked in all the lap dancing clubs while I earned my 12 doctorates and it was like being at a theme park every night, this was only hampered when the OLD, ugly women in their 40s and 50s came in (for hen nights no less) and they were mean to me because I was so sexy and be-a-u-tiful and they were jealous cream cake eating, dried up hags working middle management jobs rather than making a living partying with their besties like me. They just didn't want their men giving the money they earned out of their silly family's mouths to me so I could spend it on more degrees. So jealous of how I could manipulate their useless husbands. And the men were silly but you know always kind never tried it on or got aggressive (btw such a fantasy that idea of male violence feminists are such story tellers) one even covered a puddle of champers with his suit jacket for me to step on so I didn't dirty my sparkly stilettos. I expect their old, middle-management wives didn't get that treatment so no wonder they were so salty. Anyway I didn't see anyone 'trafficked' from another country, honestly I think the whole trafficking thing is a myth because I have never seen it, not once in all the many clubs I have twirled in all over the world.

No wonder no one comes to this board anymore, silly, feminists peddling their vicious lies, denying women the ability to use their bodies how they see fit. Honestly if I want men to perve over me I should just be allowed to even if it does make the surrounding area more dangerous for any women walking around or perpetuates the objectification of women and girls. After all those girls could aspire to be just like me.

I know more about it all of this than ANY of you (because I know exactly what all your experiences are and they aren't like mine so mine should have far more credence) or any of the numerous women who have given their accounts over the years in books, media and academic work - they were ALL lying btw. I am even au fait with the working of clubs the world over. It's just envy that someone like me can make it in this world for so many years while they grow old and wrinkly oh and fat, don't forget fat.

Anyway I'm working later so I best catch up on my beauty sleep after I bathe in oil of Olay (don't want to get old y'all, like you feminists). It's a good job I don't age like everyone else or I might have had to fall back on one of those doctorates and do something boring rather than party in the best industry which prizes women only for their appearance.

Courtney you go girl. Girl power and all that. Ignore these women not one of them knows the truth like we do. Empowerment rocks!!!

@NotTonightJosepheen

Just because other women don't agree with these so called attractive strippers - they think we are saggy and ugly I am lolling now

You can read from this thread other women who have not had an empowering experience. Their lived experience is just as valid as yours.

Not really. An American bar maid for a year didn't like it. That's about as relevant as the receptionist in the accountancy office complaining about her "struggles" in the accountancy world and speaking on behalf of accountants about how awful our job is.

And yes, there will be people who've had bad experiences. I've already acknowledged that. But please gloss over that too. And these are the tiny tiny tiny minority. And the only thing ever reported or published.

Look at the pathetic responses on this thread at my experience. Which I'm telling you, is what 99% of dancers will tell you. We love our jobs. No one touches us. No one exploits us. We have a great time. But you can't accept that, can you