Things I have learned in Feminist Chat

[nettie434]

Just listening to a programme on impartial journalism on Radio 4. Yes, I know some people will be giving a hollow laugh

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008b84

To be fair, the panel includes Robert Peston and Julia Hartley Brewer. I’m enjoying it. At the beginning Helen Lewis referred to the Overton Window. I had never heard of it until I started reading posts on here.

It’s just one thing among many I’ve learned on Feminist Chat. I wondered if anyone else could pinpoint things they’ve only found out about here.

That my unease with surrogacy is not bigoted, or squeamish. That I am in fact completely right to think it is abominable, and thanks to FWR I now have the words to articulate why I think that.

This. And that actually, many of the things I felt uneasy about aren't my personal failings, but are in fact shared by many women and are the problems of men's structural power and dominance.

Thankyou Ereshkigal.

I'm another one who has always felt uneasy about surrogacy and has been relieved to find other people who feel the same way.

I've also learnt about the Overton Window, regulatory capture and Chesterton's fence. And how could I forget the Bewilderness's brilliant rules of misogyny? (Which, once you know them, you start spotting everywhere.)

There are an awful lot of clever, funny, sane women on FWR. This is why it's one of my favourite places on the web.

I’ve learnt an enormous amount about legislation. I’ve learnt that even high profile and intelligent people don’t seem able to think critically and are willing to believe unsubstantiated and illogical ideology if that will burnish their image. I’ve learnt that fairness in women’s sport doesn’t matter - the important thing is that male-bodied people can compete in women’s sport and only women need to be kind as their rights are trampled on.

More positively I’ve learnt that together we can make a difference

On one of the lurker threads, it was established that the average time from starting to lurk FWR threads to plucking up the courage to post was about six months

I didn’t see this but i agree

It took me ages...honestly ages to post...and then even longer to be confident about it

I didn't do the six month lurk before I dived in (quite a while ago, possibly when FWR was still called FWR). I had my arse handed to me, quite rightly.

So, one of the things I've hopefully learned is a bit of humility and self-reflection. I've also learned I occasionally need a refresher course.

I read the first few posts, and got a sudden craving for WBH (so satisfying )

I've learned that there are a helluva lot of women out there who don't think that prostitution is empowering, that surrogacy is all fantastic and women should gladly do it.

Regulatory capture is probably the most important thing I've learned about: pretty much everyone I know thinks the whole trans agenda is nuts, but unless we stop just muttering and rolling our eyes at the ludicrousness of the situation, it will become the law of the land.

This weekend I've set aside time to complete the surrogacy consultation: a couple of years ago I wouldn't have bothered, but after seeing the difference completing that awful self id consultation made I'm going for it.

Imagine how far our rights would have gone if the GRA consultation went sailing through.

Darvo

DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender."

Although in my head I had D standing for deflect and R re-frame, but just thinking of DAVRO if I get into an argument gives me a bit of headspace to keep focused and not fall for some gaslighting crap.

I think that works just as well.

www.theduluthmodel.org/wheels/

Duluth Wheel

Tbh, that I really am a feminist. For some time I no longer thought I was.

A lot more about different types of feminism.

And that I am much more inclined now to genuinely listen to older women, rather than basing my feminism on the brilliant but very young voices of the feminist polemic classics.

That I'm not alone.

After years of being in a community that's so liberal it's collective brains have fallen out, I've moved home and am reclaiming my space and my voice plus finding new friends.

You all rock thanks for being here.

To all the brilliant,educated articulate and witty feminists here, thank you.

Chesterton's Fence!
Bunbury is trying to teach me not to be such a sucker for a troll and slowly but surely I am reaching for the gray rock.
The Duluth Wheel.
Mostly that I am not alone, after all. Thank you one and all.

I clearly don't spend enough time on FWR since this thread has taught me lots of new phrases. But the simplest thing is the knowledge and language to describe concepts from a feminist viewpoint. Very useful to poke the wasps nest every so often at work.

Many of the things already posted (including WBH

That Magdalen Berns says it as it is, and calls it bullshit when it is. RIP Magdalen, your light will continue to shine bright into the TRA corners

Hey Magdalen we tried
Thread was deleted

But we will keep calling it 💪

That I will never have a sharp enough brain or enough self confidence to publicly say what I feel about the whole damn thing!

That there is no consistency in the moderation and you have to keep permanently on your fucking toes

That this probably isn't a place for women. I can't believe that just happened.

One thing that I've learned tonight is that MNHQwill always support men before women.
I would suggest that to have a civil and constructive debate, then civility needs to come from both sides.

And compromise

Lets not forget the compromising...

I have been introduced to some essential reading which I wish I had found years ago and so have been passing onto others, especially younger female relatives etc.

The Gendered Brain by Gina Rippon
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker
Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft

I think FWR together with relationships board have given me insight into abuse and how it works, the blinkers are off.

Threads like this;
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294452-This-woman-is-being-stalked-but-the-police-refuse-to-act-help
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3479798-I-stand-with-Lisa-Muggeridge?pg=2
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3600308-Tools-for-recognising-manipulative-abuse
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3677115-pattern-of-domestic-abuse-resulting-in-homicide

I also actively seek and promote work by women now.