You could go to prison for being disrespectful - BBC tells children

[SorryAuntLydia]

The BBC is teaching primary school children that ‘People can go to prison if it’s shown that they are being disrespectful or hateful because of a difference that that person perceives.’
In other words, wrong-think makes you a criminal.

I find this really sinister, not least as it is stated immediately after a statement about people saying horrible things about transgender people. It’s pretty clear that children watching are supposed to make the link that questioning transgenderism is a criminal offence and will put you in jail.

It’s at 1 minute 55 s in this film Respect film

I know there are threads discussing other films in this series but think it’s important to highlight this issue separately.

I’m appalled by this and will be complaining to the BBC but expect that as an individual I’ll be ignored as a bigot.
I’m hoping some of my more learned sisters can advise on if there is a more powerful group response we could make about all the ill-informed BBC RSE films.

jesus fucking christ

so they can see there's a problem if they've edited the video, but they can't bring themselves to reply to licence payers who complained about it?

I've escalated the lack of reply to ofcom and submitted a follow up complaint to the BBC

Interested to see what they eventually respond with.

But in the meantime, the BBC has replied to me apologising for not being able to respond to my complaint within its set timelines.

I once got that from the BBC wrt a complaint I made (on an entirely unrelated-to-feminism issue, for clarification).

Never heard another thing from them re my actual complaint. They're doing that now - just not bothering to respond to the specifics of complaints.

well they have not reckoned with how incredibly bloody minded I can be when I think someone's giving me the run around

I wonder if they don't understand how the law works or if they're just hoping nobody else does.

yes

that fucking video still says

People can go to prison if it’s shown that they are being disrespectful or hateful because of a difference that that person perceives

and look at the expression on the children's faces while that woman says that. they are bot finding that conversation educational or reassuring. they're being told very pointedly how they must behave

and it's not at all in line with the law

really, what are the BBC thinking?

‘People can go to prison if it’s shown that they are being hateful because of a difference that that person perceives.’

Not just heavy-handed, it's about impossible to understand. Which person? Kind of crucial to know the difference, no?

What I get from that now is - 'people can go to prison if they are being hateful' - actually I think that's worse.

Kids pick up on broad, simple, easy to understand points, not legal nuance. They'll hear 'you'll go to prison if you're hateful'. This is not okay, to teach kids this.

Because what does 'hateful' mean? Saying no? To what? To whom?

The trouble is, even I'm not sure if this is true now or not. Can you go to prison for being 'hateful'? Do we have a clear definition of 'hateful'? Is Kate Scottow 'hateful'? Are Extinction Rebellion protestors 'hateful'? Anti-abortion protestors? Strikers? MPs calling people 'bum boys' and 'piccaninnies' - or do the rules just not apply if you're rich and well-connected enough?

Liberty should be all over this, the absolute shower. Who is there who stands up for civil liberties now in the UK? It's bloody Mumsnet, isn't it?!

(No offense, MNHQ, I very much appreciate it, it's just pretty tragic that the orgs set up to supposedly protect these things now appear useless or worse)

I mean, what if the difference the child perceives is that the other child is a bully? What if it's that the child torments small animals and the other children notice and dislike them as a result? What if they just plain don't like the other child for reasons that can't be pinned down to membership in any particular demographic? What if the child is bookish and they dislike the sporty children?

What, so now you can't hate anyone?

Exactly. All the bother of editing the clip and yet they've still not fixed it. So this tells us that

1. They know they're in the wrong and
2. They think we'll give up and go away if they fudge the issue.

They're going to have them reporting each other to the police because A didn't invite B to their birthday party and that's a hate crime at this rate.

being 'hateful' in itself is not actually a crime. you cannot get sent to prison for it

if you commit a crime, e.g. an act of violence, your 'hateful' motivation can be considered an aggravating factor (something I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with tbh, either hitting people is wrong or it isn't regardless of motivation). but while hating people for a particular characteristic is likely to mean you're a bit of a shit and absolutely someone nobody wants to get into a conversation with, it is not illegal.

How comfortable is any child going to feel complaining that they don't like another child's behavior if they've been told that being disrespectful is a hate crime?

At least seeing as 'misogyny' isn't counted there won't be all the innumerable incidences of hate crime there might have been! Imagine!

They should probably tell the kids this. It's okay to be 'hateful' to women, just not the other protected characteristics.

I am very comfortable with motivation being taken into account as aggravating/mitigating factors in actual crimes. It is how our legal systems work and for good reason.

I am not comfortable with anyone, least of all children, being told 'hating' is a crime in and of itself. It isn't and it shouldn't be.

Children must not be forced to pretend to like people. That is an unforgivable violation of their boundaries that leaves them open to abuse.

I have had several conversations with my kids about having to be everyone's friend. Their school, in an effort to combat bullying, has pushed 'everyone is friends' quite strongly. I've hopefully made it abundantly clear that, while you should be polite to everyone, there is absolutely no reason to be 'friends' with someone you don't want to be friends with.

In my view it's quite important that kids retain their instinct for staying away from people they sense are unsafe - adults or children - and it's really important they don't feel that they are being 'bad' or naughty for not wanting to be friends with people.

I'd have thought a school would have understood this type of consent/safeguarding issue better, to be honest.

That video is terrible! Especially the prison thing but just the whole tone of it.
Another video in the same series; RSE KS2: Identity - Understanding sexual and gender identities, talks about how there are 'over 100, if not more, gender identities,' How confusing for these 9-12 year-olds.
it also talks about gender assigned at birth.
www.bbc.co.uk/teach/class-clips-video/rse-ks2-identity-understanding-sexual-and-gender-identities/zfqrhbk

I don't want to pay a licence fee any more I used to adore the BBC.

I don't want to pay for the BBC anymore either. Once Autumn and Christmas are out the way I am seriously considering getting rid of our telly to do just that. I would love it - I would just LOVE IT! - if they ask me why I no longer have a licence just so's I could tell them.

Right now I really HATE the BBC.

What a cracking way for predatory and abusive adults to groom children: tell them they're "disrespectful" if they don't comply with the adult's wishes.

Red flag.

What a cracking way for predatory and abusive adults to groom children: tell them they're "disrespectful" if they don't comply with the adult's wishes

Christ I hadn't thought of that! Good call @VickyEadieofThigh

Given Thames Valley Police think saying Woman: Adult human female is offensive, the bar seems to be set very low when it comes to what is deemed 'hateful'

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/a-transphobic-crime-wave-has-hit-oxford/

This are worryingly anti-safeguarding messages as PP have said.
Also does not mean differences will not be perceived. Differences are real. Just means they are putting extra anxiety about what is OK to say and creating a suspicion of prejudice where there may have been none, around children’s relationships. This encourages mutual othering because kids will then feel unsafe to ask totally normal questions.