Sex discrimination linked to depression in women

[ErrolTheDragon]

Study by UCL with findings which will surprise nobody, reported in The Times today.

I'll put a link in next post.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-discrimination-street-harassment-linked-to-depression-in-women-t73rrngdn?shareToken=cabb1fc265d1be0bf6a0136cfad6fb67

I’ve definitely been depressed due to sex discrimination and related bullying at work. Knowing I’m valued/paid less than my male colleagues makes me feel bitter, which then makes personal relationships more difficult and the whole thing spirals downhill. Then men from my profession tell me online that they judge me negatively for having changed jobs more often than they consider reasonable. I’m in my fifties now and can only hope my daughter has it better than I have.

It was a fairly depressing state of affairs being made redundant on both of my maternity leaves.

Thanks for the link Errol. Yes, it’s unsurprising but helpful to have the evidence.

I tried to look for the paper itself but couldn't find it. I wish newspapers would all provide links if they're discussing published research, some do.

I’m in my fifties now and can only hope my daughter has it better than I have.

It seems sometimes that our daughters have it worse. For all the talk of sex (or gender as it is all too often wrongly referred to) discrimination being tackled and teaching children they can be what they want to be regardless of sex in the real world women still hit the wall of pregnancy discrimination whether we choose to have children ourselves or not. At least my generation were expecting it. For younger women the shock seems greater.

And that's before you get into the erosion of women's rights.

This makes sense. Discrimination at work takes a huge toll and can leave women in a difficult situation if they either don't get or retain positions and end up in financial difficulty or with feelings of resentment. I have suffered discrimination before, during and since pregnancy in an industry with a lot of women at more junior levels but which is dominated by men in senior roles.

Agree young women seem to find it a bigger shock. They really do seem to believe they have achieved equality - especially the highly educated ones. Maternity discrimination is such a shock to them.
Yes and the erosion of the term 'woman' and women's rights will make it even harder.

Really interesting, thank you for sharing

I tried to look for the paper itself but couldn't find it. I wish newspapers would all provide links if they're discussing published research, some do.

Me too Errol. I looked at the journal early view and the web page of the researcher who was quoted but without success.

I hope that this isn't too much of a derail (if it is then I'll save for another thread) but wouldn't it actually be more accurate to call the pay gap a 'maternity gap'.

I say this because young women have earnt more than young men for a decade now in both the US/UK, and studies that have looked at childless career women (think it was a study by The Economist) have found that they continue to be promoted more often than their male colleagues.

It seems clear to me that the problem is possibly more likely to be extended breaks from one's career rather than just sexism.

Admittedly the above is just as much of an issue as biology isn't about to change anytime soon (despite what TRAs might argue - whoops there goes my taurettes again...).

It seems clear to me that the problem is possibly more likely to be extended breaks from one's career rather than just sexism.

That is simplistic. Discrimination isn't just about rates of pay. It is about being overlooked for jobs/promotions because you might become pregnant.

That affects all women of childbearing age, particularly in our 30s, as it is often assumed we're about to rush off and have babies even if we don't want, can't have, have already had as many as we wish.

We are all at risk of not getting the job because of assumptions made about us. That can impact our long term earnings but it is about much, much more than just money.

Discrimination isn't just about rates of pay. It is about being overlooked for jobs/promotions because youmightbecome pregnant.

Actually, I've definitely seen this happen, I think (and not always men doing the discrimination sadly).

I wonder what the solution is. It's not hard to see why small businesses don't want to take the risk of training up somebody to possibly lose them and pay for a temporary replacement (I believe there are lots of people who wouldn't necessarily 'do the right thing' despite their claims to the contrary, a la Sophia Amorosu).

I often hear that us men can have our cake and eat it (I agree) but surely this also requires women to be complicit? If they say 'no' then there is no baby. Or am I oversimplifying this too?

Or am I oversimplifying this too?

Yes.

That is simplistic. Discrimination isn't just about rates of pay. It is about being overlooked for jobs/promotions because you might become pregnant.

But if women are out-earning men in pay up until they start taking actual maternity breaks, that seems to suggest what you saying isn't happening in large numbers (relatively speaking, anyway.).

Thanks for the share token. Makes perfect sense to me.

But if women are out-earning men in pay up until they start taking actual maternity breaks, that seems to suggest what you saying isn't happening in large numbers (relatively speaking, anyway).

I'd be interested to read that study by The Economist. I've not read it but it was referenced by the economist Kate Andrews in a debate about the pay gap that I watched on Facebook (so I have no reason to doubt its truthfulness).

It would be interesting to know the approximate age of said childless career women who are 'promoted more aggressively' than their male peers - is it that they are generally past the age where businesses view them as 'a risk', or is it just that they don't actually choose to have children and take the time off (suggesting that maybe it is the act of having time off itself rather than prejudice that causes the disparity).

I believe I've also read a while back that the number of young men earning £60k is rapidly increasing. I think the article stated that there is not yet parity but it predicted that women could well outpace men in the next few years.

If I remember rightly it suggested the reasons as a decline in blue collar jobs and 'traditional' jobs and an increase in demand for soft skills like emotional intelligence, adaptability, etc. And also the fact that three women now graduate for every two men

It seems clear to me that the problem is possibly more likely to be extended breaks from one's career rather than just sexism.

In America maternity leave is short - I think 8 weeks? They still have less women in leadership positions.

In my industry it's common for people (more usually men) to take sabbaticals of several months - we still have far fewer women in leadership positions.

However most of the senior leaders I've known are a) childless, b) have a stay at home wife or c) have a nanny. C is only an option if one is already earning good money when children come on the scene and the number of men prepared to stay st home is small so basically mothers are being penalised for not being able to be available to work at all times....

The gender pay gap is made up of the 'explained' part and the 'unexplained' part. The explained part is made up of the things you would expect to impact on pay levels: full time rather than part-time working, permanent rather than casual work, education level and age. The unexplained part is just that, the bit that analysts can't explain by the things which are known to affect pay levels. This is discrimination and makes up around 40% of the gender pay gap, according to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

It also cuts in most savagely when women have babies, so the gender pay gap is mostly about motherhood.

One of the researchers was interviewed by Jane Garvey on Woman's Hour today. Episode is not yet up on Radio 4 website but will be later today.

ManOfReason you do know that men become parents too but it doesn't affect their pay or their progression? What you seem to be saying is that women should choose not to have children to stay on a chosen career path, but you're not saying that about men? Do you not see the sexism there?

Manofreason - If you read the research with an open mind, it is pretty clear that it is not just taking time off which affects women's pay. A massive chunk of the pay disparity is straight up discrimination.

Bazzlejet - Its actually worse than that. When men have babies their pay goes up compared to men who don't. The whole thing is completely sexist.