Sex discrimination linked to depression in women

[ErrolTheDragon]

Study by UCL with findings which will surprise nobody, reported in The Times today.

I'll put a link in next post.

I can understand why a man can't see it because a man hasn't experienced it.

I've said it before and someone said it upthread. When I started work following university and for a few years after, I didn't see discrimination. But I was naive and at the bottom of the ladder anyway.

As I moved up the ladder I was told certain work wasn't suitable for me, as a woman and was utterly shocked. I always found I was expected to be doing more of the 'woman's' work around the office - answering phones, making coffees for guests, even as I became one of the most senior. Once I got pregnant it was pretty much game over and my career has been up and down since, mainly due to the challenges of being a single mother and an older woman in an industry where older women with children are not the norm.

It seems clear to me that the problem is possibly more likely to be extended breaks from one's career rather than just sexism.

It seems clear to me that our collectively-agreed understanding and application of the notion of a career is utterly entwined with the notion of the default male. Thus it cannot help but perpetuate inequality - because inequality is built into the normal working parameters of the system.

Want to fix the pay gap? Actively resist the assumption that there'll be someone else around to deal with the child-bearing and -raising; do away with the ridiculous system in which two full-time incomes are a standard requirement for anyone wanting to actually maintain a home; radically recalibrate our societal understanding of what constitutes a healthy work-life balance; adjust your behaviour to bring it in line with the principles you claim; stop normalising the hampering of women's attempts to liberate themselves from male dominance and, while you're at it, stop doing it yourself.

I reckon if we manage all that, we might just about crack it.

(For clarity and arse-covering purposes I would like it known that the above is all directed at General You rather than anyone specific.)

As for the topic of the OP - I'm utterly unsurprised. From my personal experience I reckon the strain of constant cognitive dissonance probably has a correlation with depression in this context too. Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's a factor in the phenomenon of 'younger women seeming to be hit harder than we were' mentioned by pp.

The idealism side of where we want to be (eg no sex discrimination) gets pushed hard. At the same time, the pragmatism of more experienced women is minimised and denigrated, which further increases the gap between the world we're told we ought to be able to expect and the real world we actually get. We have to expend a portion of our mental resources continually smoothing over the discrepancies thrown up by this gap; it's a psychological defence mechanism without which we would struggle to function effectively as an oppressed class.

There comes a point where this becomes intolerable (often this point is babies) and we have to accept that we've been told an absolute whopper of a lie - and then we get to be gaslit by society's insistence that a) it wasn't an actual lie as such and b) it's our own fault for being stupid enough to believe the lie.

Buggered either way, because we're stuck at the shitty end of an abusive dynamic. Of course we're depressed.

What you seem to be saying is that women should choose not to have children to stay on a chosen career path, but you're not saying that about men? Do you not see the sexism there?

Where did I say that?

I just mentioned that women who don't have kids continue to outpace men, which made me think that maybe kids (not prejudice) are the issue.

Maybe marriage is also a factor.

Many couples have joint finances once married, so perhaps it becomes less of a priority for some women to focus on their career once they are not entirely 'fending for themselves' as when single.

I can certainly see why some women would think it made sense to continue to be primary carer for the baby after nine months of learning the ropes as it would likely be much more disruptive to both baby and couple to switch roles nine months in.

I'm sure these aren't the only reasons but they certainly make some sense.

Many couples have joint finances once married, so perhaps it becomes less of a priority for some women to focus on their career once they are not entirely 'fending for themselves' as when single

You're phrasing this as though women bring the pay gap on ourselves.

This is effectively victim-blaming. Take some responsibility, do your bit to tackle inequality. Put men's actions and their consequences back into the equation.

The context your hypothetical woman here is in, is a couple. There are two of them. Her husband's behaviour and thought processes are part of the context she has to navigate and make choices within.

Stop pretending there's nothing he can do to change anything. You're a man; it's your job to sort men out, not ours - your first step is acknowledging that there is a man benefiting from a woman's disadvantage in this scenario.

You're phrasing this as though women bring the pay gap on ourselves.

I did say that there are likely many reasons. However, it's not unreasonable to think that an individual's choices might affect their circumstances/outcome surely.

Your first step is acknowledging thatthere is a man benefiting from a woman's disadvantagein this scenario.

Do most couples really see it like that? Seems pretty cynical to me. I know my sister certainly doesn't. She gave up a good career and is extremely happy working part time. Her husband has been able to focus on his job and is now a director, meaning that as a family they have a pretty exceptional standard of living. There's no way she would've let anybody else bring up her kids, that's for sure, and she says her life is much less stressful nowadays.

Everybody and each couple are different. If both partners want to work then I guess they need to find childcare, but many women seem pretty happy working part time from what I've seen in the real world outside of internet forums and feminist circles.