Everyday sexism

[nicola18737]

I was shopping for a new car yesterday. I went into Jaguar and was chatting about what I wanted and how I was going to order it today. The salesman said to me "aren't you a bit daunted?". I looked at him quizzically and asked why he'd say that. "Well ladies usually bring someone with them". "Like a man you mean?" I replied. He then backtracked saying he didn't mean any offence and no they usually brought a friend.

I wasn't offended, more amused. He was probably right that women would normally bring someone with them, yet I still felt like he was thinking me a brave little soldier for doing this all on my own.

There's a brilliant chapter, wittily written as a playlet, in Joan Smith's Misogynies, which perfectly illustrates this when a workman calls. Awful and funny. Excellent book, hasn't really dated unfortunately. Woman's Hour prog about it here:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045c0hc

I went into a car showroom with my 21 year old daughter, I was 38...we're both petite blonde women.
You could see the dumb fuck having a meltdown.
He kept speaking to me, I asked him why he wasn't speaking to the woman buying the car... Did not compute and they lost a sale. Twat!!!

No probs at the Skoda garage that we used to use, but then it was family run by a couple and their two daughters. The two daughters took no shit from male customers.

I get this in reverse. I'll call up a garage and ask for some specific work to be done, and get called "sir".
Or I'll get called at work, and if the person calling doesn't know me, I'll either get a male reference or they'll mishear my name and bestow a male name on me.
I don't have a particularly low voice at all but I don't tend to use many of the hedging techniques other women do.
It's a real eye opener.

@FlyingOink interesting. What do you mean be hedging techniques? I'm always careful to make sure I don't apologise for not understanding something and things like that, if the person hasn't explained it properly.

In my role about 2/3 of employees are male. But on the engineering and other maintenance and "major projects" side, it's about 80-90% male.

A typical convo with a contractor might go thus:
Can I speak to the supervisor please?
That's me.
Oh, no, I mean a manager. The guy running this place.
Still me.
looks confused and surprised Oh! Ok! Er, I need to sign in to do some work...

Another typical situation is a male contractor explaining in deep detail what work he needs to do on site to a male member of my staff only for my colleague to say, Oh, you need to speak to my supervisor...then I get the mansplained version of what he said to my junior .

Our customers are no better. Some male customers will ask me for assistance and I will look it up on my iPad if I don't know, find what they are looking for, show them on the iPad, then maybe give them a map with their destination circled so they know where they are going....they say thank you, you've been a great help...then literally a minute later they are asking a male colleague the exact same thing .

I am so used to it now, I gave to laugh.

Had the "can't find the fault" thing with the car, and it was obscure to be, but the annoying thing is that I've observed this, I tell you what I hear, maybe you should listen.

Case of female not believing that the van was "swaying" and said I was simply not used tot the wind buffeting a high-ish vehicle, but her husband - the actual mechanic - believed me straight away. It was a slow puncture, with 2 tires affected by nails.

Worst, and funniest in a sense, was the guy from the body repair. The time OH came, he only talked at him, answering him on questions I posed (my (lease) car, OH doesn't drive). But the times that I came on my own, no problem, he talked technical, was perfectly at ease.

Worst, and funniest in a sense, was the guy from the body repair. The time OH came, he only talked at him, answering him on questions I posed (my (lease) car, OH doesn't drive). But the times that I came on my own, no problem, he talked technical, was perfectly at ease.
Do you think it's about avoiding upsetting (fellow) men? Assuming a junior male is in charge might piss off his female boss, but the reverse would be somehow worse?
We're just collateral damage

nicola18737 there are lots of verbal hedging techniques, designed to make the speaker appear more sympathetic and the message less harsh. They are employed more often by women (but not exclusively).
It's a feature of collaborative (as opposed to competitive) communication. However men tend to read that language softening as almost a weakness and walk all over you verbally in response.
So when I talk to men I don't know I am very direct. And then they assume I am a man. So it must be pretty ingrained in them to expect to be facilitated by women in conversations.
Likewise, I don't laugh at shit jokes male colleagues make. I'm not sure when I decided to stop verbally fluffing men but it makes some interactions much more straightforward.
Of course, that means there is a very high chance they call me a ball busting bitch behind my back.

If you really want to see everyday sexism as a woman, have a male secretary, which I did for a couple of years. The amusement was endless.

'Do you think it's about avoiding upsetting (fellow) men?'

Oh! Wow. Yes could well be. Great thought.

Also, I think a lot of men just feel more comfortable talking to other men, that might come into play.

And a few really do see us as a different species.

@Fraggling yes I think this may be true.

I have found myself guilty of this when talking to a man and a woman, about something that felt I had more in common with the woman about - e.g. babies. I noticed myself looking and talking to her when the man might have directed the topic/asked the question. I think I just felt I had more in common with her and that she'd understand what I was meaning better. I know... this is just as bad.

@BiologyIsReal - I've always said I'm getting a male PA one day!

My car one was trying to sell my car because I was leaving the country. Took to a couple of dealers. Very low prices. Challenged them repeatedly. Was told they couldn't go higher.

My dad took my car to next day to three dealers. His LOWEST offer was higher than my highest.

And what's annoying is that I of course went with his highest offer (to be fair, he didn't take them to the same dealers as I did so maybe they would have been better with me but...)

Good point, fraggling, I can see that, and we do it ourselves I suppose.

Recently we’ve had a spate of hospital attendances with our two young DC, and without fail, the medical staff have done the same thing with addressing me (mum) only, and not even making eye contact with dad, let alone involve him in the info or aftercare plan. Despite him holding DC at time and clearly not being a feckless dad. He has found it really shocking, I didn’t really care as I was the one being treated respectfully in the situation! But since he’s commented on it I’ve been more aware and it is really direct and just as sexist to us both.

A customer asked me for something in the supermarket where I was a supervisor. We didn't sell it, so I told him that. A minute later one if my coworkers, a teenage boy, asked me for the same item. The customer saw me answering my coworker. So, another minute later, another coworker, also a teenage boy, came over to ask me the same question again. Again within eyesight of the customer. After that, the customer gave up.

ViolaTricolora
I don't think I'd be able to resist walking up to the customer and asking them why they did that

The first chain of dealerships that cracks selling to women is going to clean up, isn't it?! Personally I like CarGiant. Never experienced sexism there and it's got a cafe and a loo that is not even oily.

I think if you are in a sales role though its part of your job to notice and overcome any of this sort of unconscious bias.

@BiologyIsReal
If you really want to see everyday sexism as a woman, have a male secretary, which I did for a couple of years. The amusement was endless.

In my office there used to be a team situation quite similar. Woman my age with male more junior (but older in age) colleague, or even male (30s) trainee. Often the male is looked at as the manager, even though they would have known that 'Lydia' is the manager. But in both cases, the men were clean cut, in suit and tie, and the manager with a long limp hair, badly dressed (mostly due to serious obesity and not wanting to spend any money getting some fabulous bespoke clothing which would suit her position), but with attitude regardless (so not coming across deferentially or anything). Looking the part also helps.

It’s when I see girls school shoes. Flimsy and crap in comparison to boys.

MilkGoatee

I’m not sure I see The relavence here. Admin assistants of either gender are expected to dress sharply. Bosses of either gender... often not so much.

Yet it’s only the female boss’ authority that would ever be questions.

A male boss would never be mistaken for the admin simply due to having a slovenly appearance. The fact that it did with your situation demonstrates the sexism here.

@Merename I have this problem as well, my son had an appointment at audiology, the (male) audiologist commented that he wasn’t whether to call us in for our appointment as my sons Mum wasn’t with us and she would know the answers to questions he had. I said he doesn’t have a mum (which he would know if he had actually read my sons notes) and he asked if there was another adult who could join the appointment.

I’m a Cambridge grad, so I’m not a complete moron!

Yep, this happened to me in a Mercedes dealership. I test drove an AMG, having done lots of research online beforehand. Then the (young, female) salesperson asked me if I needed to talk my husband about it before I put the deposit down. I’ve never been married, never will be and wasn’t in a relationship at the time. I sent an email to the head of sales at the dealership and will now never buy a Mercedes for that very reason. Went next door to BMW and very happy with my JCW MINI. Nobody there has ever behaved like that to me in the three years I have been going to them. It’s important to make it clear to people that it’s costing their businesses ££ when they treat women as less able than men.