Any stats on transwomen who are agp compared to homosexual

[Qcng]

Hi,
Basically there's someone in my life who is gender critical to a point, (thinks it's ridiculous for males to compete against women in sport and is generally conservative when it comes to same sex spaces).

They basically refuse to or can't believe that a "man dressed in women's clothing" could possibly be attracted to women.
He is convinced that all transvestites/transwomen are "gay" - attracted to men.

I have tried to explain that some cross dressers or transwomen are attracted to women, which is a worry for women in same sex spaces like prisons/shelters etc, but he basically thinks I'm making it up! He can't believe it, so it leads to a sort of plateau in his thinking which a lot of men get to, which is
"Well it's only harmless feminine (weak) gay men so what's your problem?"

Anyway.

I've come across this sort of thinking from men rather a lot.

Can any of you help me with concrete statistics wrt basically

The percentage of males who identify as women who are attracted to women
Compared to
The percentage of males who identify as women who are attracted to men?

There is a lot of shame around agp so it is hard to get stats, as it is not something people are likely to self-report. Perhaps check Anne Lawrence’s work (a TW) if not done already?

I think you are right OP, you'd likely need stats to convince your friend. I'm sure her realises there are at least a few transwomen who are actually attracted to women, he just thinks that it's really not the norm. Either he's met people who are trans who were gay men, or he just can't quite wrap his mind around the idea of a heterosexual man who wants to live as a woman.

I've wondered myself what the real % is, both of the transwomen I've known over the years were attracted to men, even before transition. And I also wonder if the numbers might have changed, if those who are attracted to women in the past kept things mainly private and considered themselves cross-dressers.

OP - you could telling him the joke (which incidentally I heard on a TED Talk by a trans widow) :

Q- What's the difference between a transvestite and a transwoman?

A- 2 years on social media.

Tell him to google "Women are Human"

From Wikipedia:

"A 2015 survey of roughly 3000 American trans women showed that at least 60% were attracted to women. Of the trans women respondents 27% answered gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving, 20% answered bisexual, 19% straight, 16% pansexual, 6% answered asexual, 6% queer, and 6% did not answer."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality

Is your friend on Twitter OP? TW with a}g}p seem to dominate trans Twitter. They have a visceral hatred for any TW who believes TW are male (e.g. Blaire White, Fionne O).

Get your friend to look on twitter or reddit.

Fair warning though, a good amount of the accounts have a NSFW warning

From "Gender Dyshoria is not one thing":

"Autogynephilia is a probably rare, although it is difficult to know for certain. Among males who seek gender transition, however, it is common. In fact, in Western countries in recent years, including the United States, autogynephilia has accounted for at least 75% of cases of male-to-female transsexualism."

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

25% of men who present themselves as women are homosexual transsexuals [HSTS]. This was largely because same-sex marriage was not law. Now that same-sex marriage is law in many countries, the volume of HSTS is likely to decline.

Thanks for your replies here, all v useful

zebras
But - surely your gc-ish friend must realise that a substantial proportion of transwomen are attracted to women?
No, he really, really doesn't. He can't/won't believe it. It's quite frustrating.

Errol
A TW is likely to describe a relationship with either a woman or a TW as 'lesbian'
Yes I told him this and he shakes his head saying "I doubt it" looks at me like I'm crazy.

Goosefoot
Either he's met people who are trans who were gay men, or he just can't quite wrap his mind around the idea of a heterosexual man who wants to live as a woman
Yes, it's something like that I think.

Spinninghag
Thank you!

MamaOomMowWow
Perfect! Thank you that's really really useful.
Why didn't I try Wiki?!

MamaOomMowWow
And 60% is waaay higher than I would have thought.
AGP must be scarily common

Rough estimates are that 1 in 30 men are AGP to some extent or other (this doesn't mean all 1 in 30 will declare themselves trans and/or develop dysphoria and seek physical transition).

Look: 95% of men are heterosexual. There is no way that the vast, vast majority of males currently asserting a trans identity are not also heterosexual.

Yes I’ve seen a similar stat, that up to 3% of males are affected by a/g/p. Previously many may have cross-dressed etc private - it’s only recently become socially acceptable to “live as a woman” [or maybe the lot of women has improved enough in the West].

OP - this bloke doesn't want to see what's there. He will put his own opinions above evidence - it's a similar phenomenon to climate change denial etc.

What does he make of Izzard? (He's one of the few people we can talk about unambiguously because of what he himself has publicly said).
Izzard is transgenderr^,[76] identifying as "somewhat boy-ish and somewhat girl-ish".[16] When asked what pronouns he prefers, Izzard said "either 'he' or 'she.'"[1] In the past, Izzard identified as a transvestitee^, and he has also called himself "a lesbian trapped in a man's body"

Izzard is a strong male who has no qualms about using women's loos.
Now, Ive no doubt he's no physical threat to women, but he's the socially acceptable tip of the iceberg. Your friend doesn't want to see what lies beneath. Not his problem, nowt to do with him...

I think perhaps there's a large element of him dividing people into 'proper men' and non-men (gay men, effeminate men, transvestite and transgender males, and women).

NotTonightJosepheen
AGP must be scarily common
Amongst the general population, no
Amongst 'transgender' m to f, yes. More common than homosexual transsexuals

My thinking was that only a small number of males with AGP will actually "come out as transgender", most will just stick on frilly knickers behind closed doors and basically have a private fetish.

Looking at the 60% of transwomen being agp as high, then thinking how many there must be who aren't changing their names/pronouns.

LangCleg / 2B
3% is a lot.

Imagine if that 3% of men all all felt bold enough to actually "live as a woman" and add that to men with dysphoria / homosexual transsexuals.
Something like 5-6% of "women" would actually be male.

Your friend is perfectly capable of looking for his own stats, but he won't. Just like he won't listen to any stats that you provide, or your opinion.

He's yet another mediocre male who assumes that his beliefs about the world carry more weight than yours. He buys into the hierarchical model of society, he knows he benefits from it, and this is how he helps uphold it.
He is transgressing women's boundaries by proxy.

You haven't heard of transbians?

The "cotton ceiling" concept would not exist if TiM were not attracted to women.

Yes 3% of the male population is quite high. Note, that estimate relates to males who have agp - not all of whom will publicly live as TW.

Personally, I’m all for male born persons wearing traditionally “female” clothes if they want. As long as they respect sex segregated spaces, we’re good.

People like Eddie Izzard are not in danger using the men’s, all the vocal male allies need to stand up and say that.

Show him Jessica Yaniv's twitter profile where JY declares they are a proud lesbian.