Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Why I became an evil TERF: Penny White

53 replies

Patnotpending · 22/08/2019 12:57

I came across this video after a GC friend sent me the link and I'm going to play the first few minutes of it on my laptop when I go to see my MP next week. I wondered whether it might be useful to others.

It's straightforward and funny and common sense:

OP posts:
Juells · 22/08/2019 13:04

I feel mean and unsisterly saying it, but I wouldn't be able to listen to her voice for very long.

Original poster
Patnotpending · 22/08/2019 13:19

I imagine that's what's been said in every parliament and government around the world for the last 500 years, so you're carrying on a fine patriarchal tradition there.

The cute voice is all part of the thing. She makes serious points with it. And she gets less cutesy as the minutes pass.

OP posts:
Juells · 22/08/2019 13:27

I imagine that's what's been said in every parliament and government around the world for the last 500 years, so you're carrying on a fine patriarchal tradition there.

No I'm not. That voice is an affectation. I don't know a single woman anywhere who speaks like that.

Original poster
Patnotpending · 22/08/2019 13:32

You've never heard a woman speak like that so you conclude that no woman speaks like that and it's an affectation? She's American, some American women speak like that.

But well done you for diverting the conversation from all the important stuff she's saying by whinging about her voice.

OP posts:
OpheliaTodd · 22/08/2019 13:40

She’s great and she’s right.

Juells · 22/08/2019 13:41

Didn't mean to derail the thread, and will let posters get back to it.

Joisanofthedales · 22/08/2019 13:45

I didn't have a problem with her voice, she just sounded like an American woman. I thought what she had to say was relevant and spot on.

BazzleJet · 22/08/2019 13:46

But the message is diluted by the ridiculous voice. It's also so slow. I listened to a minute or so and she had only made one point. I couldn't bear to sit through 11 or more minutes if every point she makes is going to take forever to get there.

Would some please précis what she's saying?

FermatsTheorem · 22/08/2019 13:54

I've seen that video before - it's good.

TurboTeddy · 22/08/2019 15:53

I feel disheartened by the comments about her voice. I think she comes across as strong and she quietly but effectively expresses her anger about realising she has supported a community that doesn't give a shit about the rights of the very group they either want to be part of or claim they already are part of.

The cute voice is all part of the thing. She makes serious points with it.

I have met a few women with this type of voice and against expectation I've seen them be very effective when dealing with domineering men. I don't really understand why but my theory is that the voice is disarming and non threatening so men aren't immediately primed to be hostile because they underestimate the strength of the woman they're dealing with and in discussion they assume it will be an easy "win" to get their own way.

VortexofBloggery · 22/08/2019 16:20

I like the sound of her voice. It doesn't come across as "put on" sounds like it's her actual voice. Great video, definitely one for your MP, OP. Hope it does the trick!

NotAtMyAge · 22/08/2019 16:33

I'm British and know someone with a voice like this. It's her natural voice, not put on, and I see it just as part of the really nice person she is. I've bookmarked the video to watch when I've more time.

terryleather · 22/08/2019 16:36

Oh I'd forgotten about Penny White.

As a middle aged saggy-titted harridan this video really spoke to me

RosaWaiting · 22/08/2019 16:39

I’d like to know what’s being said but I can’t listen to the helium balloon voice either.

RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling · 22/08/2019 17:02

She's great. There's nothing wrong with her voice and I don't think it's put on. She has a higher pitched voice and an American accent. Dismissing her because of it is no less stupid and misogynist than it would be if you dismissed her for her physical appearance, or size, or ethnicity/nationality.

(That's if you want to pretend that the 'problem' with her voice isn't at least in part about nationality anyway).

RosaWaiting · 22/08/2019 18:22

.?? I certainly don’t have an issue with her nationality

I won’t name names but I’ve had few times I’ve gone for lecture transcripts, when available, rather than listen to the person’s voice.

FannyCann · 22/08/2019 23:30

Those who find Penny White too soft and high pitched May prefer a dose of the rage of a Goddess.
Personally I love them both for different reasons. They both speak the truth.

MargueritaBlue · 23/08/2019 00:19

I like her voice. I don't think it's an affectation.

What I don't like is the labouring of every point. Every single point is made over and over and over in almost exactly the same words each time. I couldn't get to the end of either video for that reason.

Qcng · 23/08/2019 09:39

I've seen quite a few of Penny White's videos. I like her.

I also learned during my education in psychology that it's common for adult people (mainly women) to speak in a "babyish" or otherwise childlike way when they have suffered trauma as a child.
It's unconscious, and can be related to a complex, eg a need for being looked after, lack of confidence, the way you see yourself in the world.

Obviously that might not be the case with PW, who knows. But it's not "put on" in my opinion. It's just her personality.

RadicalStitch · 23/08/2019 15:18

Heather Brunskell Evan's has a very feminine voice; she's lovely to listen to. Heather is extremely sharp, clever and strong.

partystress · 23/08/2019 18:11

Brilliantly clear message, delivered with humility and humour.

Lamahaha · 23/08/2019 19:01

I don't usually like watching videos, even good ones, because I get impatient. I much prefer to read someone's arguments -- it's quicker.
So I was reluctant to click on this but I got curious because of your arguments about her voice.
Very often I switch off a video after a few seconds but I watched this to the end. I liked it, and her voice was effective, as slow and calm as it was. She won me over, and that's saying something. Good, measured points, and she sounded strong even while being "nice". I like that.

MargueritaBlue · 23/08/2019 23:42

There was a rather unpleasant thread a while back criticising women's voices. The theme was that there is a certain type of man pleasing woman who puts on a girly voice and how dreadful such women are.

I like Penny White's voice. Her voice is pleasant and easy to listen to but I guess she has the type of voice which would have attracted opprobrium from posters on the other thread. I think, regardless of what one might think of the merits of what Penny is saying we can assume her voice is not put on to be man pleasing.

FannyCann · 23/08/2019 23:50

Also Marguerita the Telegraph columnist chronicling his "trans" journey referenced his sessions with a speech therapist who advised him to make his voice sound more "whiny" to pass as a woman voice. Hmm

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/08/2019 07:48

The problem with those 'little girl' voices is that they pomote the stereotypical idea of women as weak and whiny. Yes Penny White makes good points, she usually does. But somehwere in her childhood she, like many other women who use that tone, were told to shut up and be nice and/or found that wheedling got them what they wanted.

If you ask a vocal coach they will tell you that it is a very unatural way to use your voice. You have to modify the shape of your mouth, the way you hold your tongue and lower jaw, and it paralyses/bypasses many of the vocal cords - try it. Speak like that and see how odd it feels.

Anyone who speaks like that had some reason to change their natural speaking voice at some point in their life... consider why.

And then try to get past it, as her message, though laboured and twinky, is a good one!