WIBU to hang about the toilets?

[Samaranian]

I am not a poster who usually posts here but I lurk, and read and for the most part agree with the sentiments on this board.

To keep in brief, I am enjoying a lovely week in Edinburgh at the festival. Whilst at a venue yesterday waiting for a show to start, me and (male) DP went off to find the toilets. Turns out all the toilets in this venue were labelled "Gender Neutral". Just to be clear - there were two rooms I guess each with three cubicles inside and then the sinks outside the cubicles. So I guess at one point one was male and one was female? Anyway.

I made a cats bum face and huffed to DP a bit but we both went and used the toilet. When I was washing my hands several men came in to use the toilet and were standing waiting by the sinks as all the cubicles were full.

Three young girls came in and stood waiting, if I had to guess their ages I would say about 6, 8 and 11?

I was the only other woman in there and I just felt like the girls were so vulnerable in there with all the men (and again, to be clear, I am speaking about men) so I waited at the mirrors and pretended to be sorting out my make up etc until they had left.

I know the chances of anything happening are very slim but it just didn't feel right to me. DP thinks I was being silly in waiting but does agree that something about it isn't right and he actually felt uncomfortable standing washing his hands etc next to female children in an enclosed space.

So I know this isn't AIBU by any stretch of the imagination, but was IBU to wait until the girls had left the toilets before leaving myself?

It's what most normal women would do, if they give a shit about other women and girls.

I'd have done the same. Well done for looking out for them.

Not in any way unreasonable.

As PP have said, I think (I hope, anyway) that most women would do the same.

I'd do the same.

I wouldn't have done what you did but I don't think you're unreasonable, just a little over cautious. I didn't let my 6 year old go to the toilet without an adult though and would probably be waiting outside if my child was only 8. No parents around? Or was the 11 year old in charge?

I'd have done the same. Your husband's discomfort doesn't surprise me either. What the hell are we doing just to accommodate a small number of individuals, there are better solutions which preserve the safety and dignity of all.

I think your quite right to have been concerned, I'd have done the same if it were young boys too. It's a sad reality that some men are paedophiles and sometimes opportunist.

Perfectly reasonable, OP. I'd do the same. No way I'd leave, knowing there were three adult males left in the toilet block with three kids. I don't care what they're wearing

I'd have done the same.

A good illustration of why this gender-neutral/unisex toilet thing has pitfalls. Any women knows there is threat and danger involved, even if it is small. God, will we ever not have to be vigilant?

not all men are pedophiles though & how is it any different to young boys using a male toilet? surely they would be just as vulnerable then?

The public Male toilets in Edinburgh are always used for cottaging and drugs and I doubt being gender neutral will change their habits.

I would do the same.

Doesn't seem unreasonable at all, especially if there was no adult accompanying the children. You did the right thing looking out for them.
Fringe venues can be intimidating because there's so many people. It's easy for predators to look for opportunities when people are busy and not paying attention.

I would have complained to the venue and make an absolute nuisance of myself. I am done being patient and nice. They are facilitating sexual assault and pedophilia and this is what I would have told them.

I'm not sure where the parents were, I am guessing in the bar/waiting area which was down the corridor.

As I said to DP at the time, even if you take the children out of the equation - how many women have been sexually assaulted on a bus, or a train, or just standing at a bar etc. I know I have. I don't think I should have to worry about having my arse groped whilst I'm trying to wash my hands.

As a PP said, all this extra hassle and need to be vigilant (for men and women) to appease a very small minority of the population.

Good for you.
I would have done the same.
These Gender Neutral toilets are an incident waiting to happen.
Personally I won`t be using them.
To be honest it makes me feel sick.

You absolutely did the right thing OP. As KUGA points out, mixed sex toilets are an incident waiting to happen .
Awful to think that they'll only be rolled back after the systematic harassment and abuse of women and girls has escalated unchecked.

If I am on an evening course, one or two of us will always help the tutor to finish clearing up and walk with her to the carpark. If I give someone a lift home, I wait until they have gone inside.
It's what we do to keep people safe and you shouldn't feel awkward or embarrassed.

Of course boys are just as vulnerable. Younger boys use the ladies with their mothers or are accompanied in the gents by their fathers.
Men go with their older sons as a general rule, however I know I'm not the only mother to have hovered outside the gents while her son used them, ready to go in if he called.

I would have done the same OP

How did it ever come to this? It’s a giant leap backwards for women and children.

I would have done the same thing.

And I would have explained to the men why I was doing it while I was there so that more people start to realise what a shit show this is.

Decent men don't like making women and girls feel unsafe and uncomfortable.

And I would have probably tweeted to the venue.

I imagine its quite likely that the parents thought that the girls were using a womans only toilet.

I would do the same.

It’s just like if I’m in town or the park etc and I see a young child with no obvious adult about I will stop until I see an adult with them.

not all men are pedophiles though

Nope. But that doesn’t stop the ones who are does it.

No, you were not. I would have done the same. And like you would have felt dissatisfied overall with such a setup, as this is deliberately undermining longstanding and very strong social taboos designed to safeguard women and girls.

On the issue of boys alone in the gents - I still prefer my youngest to go in with his brothers and if that isn't possible, I stand right outside waiting for him (which isn't much, I know, but it is still a safety measure I can take).

However, the power of a testosterone-fuelled puberty being what it is, boys are - from their mid teens onwards - considerably stronger than their female peers. Even though they usually will not be stronger than a fully grown male, many predators seek out victims they can overpower easily, so risk is marginally reduced for boys in this situation compared to girls of the same age.

By the way, we do actually worry more about boys in this respect than girls. The latter are presumed to be safe in the toilets of their own sex while the former are considered unsafe in the gents. That's why most boys are either taken into the ladies by their mothers or accompanied into the gents by male relatives to keep them safe.

Most patrons are unaware that the toilets are now mixed in many places, that is until they actually need to use the facilities. So, many parents will let their girls go without them, especially if they go together, thinking it's perfectly safe because women typically do look out for younger girls in women's spaces. Well, that was my experience growing up when older women used to chase away any creep wandering in.