WIBU to hang about the toilets?

[Samaranian]

I am not a poster who usually posts here but I lurk, and read and for the most part agree with the sentiments on this board.

To keep in brief, I am enjoying a lovely week in Edinburgh at the festival. Whilst at a venue yesterday waiting for a show to start, me and (male) DP went off to find the toilets. Turns out all the toilets in this venue were labelled "Gender Neutral". Just to be clear - there were two rooms I guess each with three cubicles inside and then the sinks outside the cubicles. So I guess at one point one was male and one was female? Anyway.

I made a cats bum face and huffed to DP a bit but we both went and used the toilet. When I was washing my hands several men came in to use the toilet and were standing waiting by the sinks as all the cubicles were full.

Three young girls came in and stood waiting, if I had to guess their ages I would say about 6, 8 and 11?

I was the only other woman in there and I just felt like the girls were so vulnerable in there with all the men (and again, to be clear, I am speaking about men) so I waited at the mirrors and pretended to be sorting out my make up etc until they had left.

I know the chances of anything happening are very slim but it just didn't feel right to me. DP thinks I was being silly in waiting but does agree that something about it isn't right and he actually felt uncomfortable standing washing his hands etc next to female children in an enclosed space.

So I know this isn't AIBU by any stretch of the imagination, but was IBU to wait until the girls had left the toilets before leaving myself?

Now girls, young and unsure, are forced to silence their inner voice that says 'why is that men in a dress in here. Why is he pretending to be a woman?' Maybe, he'll ask her about tampons like Jonathan Yaniv...

I was just responding to the OPs situation as it was on the active threads. Just noticed this is on feminism and it's sounds like it's now going to turn into a trans thread so I will leave it there.

MonChatEstMagnifique

You make a good point though. I do think a lot of people don't consider boys to be at risk as much as girls. Young boys are just as vulnerable, I think it's just case of there being a higher percentage of paedophiles that target girls. Whether that's because they see them as easier targets, or their perversions have a preference, I don't know.

not all men are pedophiles though

Can you tell the difference, just by looking?

I've done exactly the same as you before, Iwould always rather be over cautious than find out something happened, or to think the girls felt worried or uncomfortable.

Yep, I'd have done the same (and have in similar circumstance) - just another adult there to keep an eye.

I hope this comes across the right way! But I think my husband would have been grateful for your presence if he'd found himself in a toilet with young girls inadvertently around him.

NOT because he's a bad guy who needs watching, but because he's super-cautious around children in a way that he says I don't have to be. Possibly one of the advantages of being a woman?

For example, we see a cute baby in a pushchair, I can smile and say "hello" and nod at the mum. He says he'd just never dare in case it was ever taken the wrong way, or in case he scared them somehow.

He's autistic and over sensitive and worries to an extreme over many things, but I can't imagine that many men would jump for joy at the idea generally either.

I wonder if any of the men thought 'hmm, she's acting a bit suspiciously' as the OP hung around in a fairly obvious manner? Who's to say they weren't equally worried about her?

I’d have done the same OP. And yes, I also hover outside the gents when my ds is in there.

A woman sorting out her makeup as the OP said she did doesn't look suspicious, like a man hanging around would. Women often do take longer by the mirrors etc.

I'm uncomfortable letting my 12 year old go alone to be honest, but he doesn't want to go into the women's, and I think some women would have a problem with him being in there so all I can do, like other pp have said is wait outside for him.

This is a good argument for having a third, unisex option as well as male and female toilets.

A woman sorting out her makeup as the OP said she did doesn't look suspicious, like a man hanging around would. Women often do take longer by the mirrors etc.

She might well have looked perfectly natural or she might have looked suspicious. Who knows. An impression someone thinks they're giving can be totally different to how other people interpret it. Who knows whether she gave a little sideways glance that was noticed for example. If I picked up on someone deliberately lurking the toilets for no good reason I'd be suspicious whether they were male or female.

Not unreasonable, I would have done the same thing.

She might well have looked perfectly natural or she might have looked suspicious.

Honestly, that's half the point - a predator is going to notice someone hanging around in that suspicious manner and hopefully move on. A non-predator might notice the woman hanging around and hang around too, and that's doing no harm at all, since they were all just waiting for the girls to leave safely.

I've certainly met the eye of someone looking like they were about to do something they shouldn't, so the could see I was watching and they've stopped - this is the same thing.

For example, we see a cute baby in a pushchair, I can smile and say "hello" and nod at the mum. He says he'd just never dare in case it was ever taken the wrong way, or in case he scared them somehow.

This reminded me of a blog post I read many years ago by a handyman who used to do the odd job for me. Somehow, that blog post impressed me back then and it just came to mind. So I did a search for it, and found it, and here it is. Jim's a very fine man, and this is somhow, as he himself says, sad.

rwjsear.blogspot.com/search/label/Rants?m=0

It's sad that good men like Jim are afraid to do the right thing.

Diagonalli: surely they [boys] would be just as vulnerable [as girls] then?

• Boys do not have the unpatchable security vulnerability known as a "vagina" built into their bodies. Girls do.
• Boys cannot be left pregnant by a rapist. Girls can.
• We live a world in which women are the object class and men the subject class in terms of sexual relations. Women and girls are the default rape targets. When did you last hear of a boy being described as "jailbait"? Girls are called that all the time.

However, the power of a testosterone-fuelled puberty being what it is, boys are - from their mid teens onwards - considerably stronger than their female peers. Even though they usually will not be stronger than a fully grown male, many predators seek out victims they can overpower easily, so risk is marginally reduced for boys in this situation compared to girls of the same age.

Boys freeze exactly the way girls do in these situations, and paedophiles choose their victims carefully.

Of course boys are just as vulnerable. Younger boys use the ladies with their mothers, Men go with their older sons as a general rule

Women are rather anxious when their young son starts or wants to use the gents.
It is a dilemma.

Because men.

mixed sex toilets are an incident waiting to happen.

^^ This. Also I notice thatin any environment where there are a number of children expected to use them, (like toilets in kids playgrounds) stated rules are usually up on a sign that adults who are not accompanying a child can’t enter the toilets. For exactly this reason.

Thanks for looking out for those girls, OP.

Hovering outside the mens loos waiting for your son is one thing, but when son takes a bit too long in there...

Arghh, mild panic sets in.