Any sports where women have advantage over men? ... Any??

[WomanBornNotWorn]

Thinking about the repeated instances of biological men self identifying into women's teams and competitions, and how the simple fact that their being physically and socialised male gives them an unfair advantage. I think we're all on the same page here.

Does anyone have any links where trans men have competed against or in teams with men? (I've read about Patricio www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/21/patricio-manuel-trans-boxer-made-history )

I understand equestrian sports are mixed, and of course mixed doubles have always been a thing, say in tennis.

There are some moves I've seen in women's gymnastics I can't imagine a trans woman being able to achieve safely and without pain.

But I'm truly trying to think of any sports where being really female gives an unfair advantage over men.

Regarding the eventing there are several high profile successful women who have given up talented horses to men due to strength issues. The men have gone on to be very successful with these horses, off the top of my head:

Ginny Leng gave Ian Stark the ride on the legendary Murphy Himself

HRH Princess Anne gave the ride on Columbus to Captain Mark Phillips

Mary King lost the ride on Chilli Morning to William Fox-Pitt and King Joules to Oliver Townend.

However very few top level horses are unsuitable for men to ride. The very tall William Fox-Pitt rode the very petite Tamarillo to great success and likewise Mark Todd and Charisma.

There is an argument that women are lighter which is an advantage that makes up for their lack of strength but it is pretty marginal.

If the equestrian sports are as equal as their mixed sex status suggests then one must question why there are so very few women at the top level (especially in show jumping) when they so vastly out number men at grassroots levels.

Ducking under

ChiefClerkDrumknott

That's the one! Thank you.

We had a horse that hated women but behaved like an angel for men.

I always wondered what he would do with a transwoman. I would wish he would trample them into the ground in his own inimitable style but that would mean he accepted their womanliness.

Being cox in rowing is apparently now gender neutral, I was thinking a woman would have an advantage of size and weight in a male team but apparently this is now allowed.

Shooting sports??

Ffs why have my paragraphs disappeared?

Not sure about ballet - the Ballet Trockadero is all male, in tutus and en pointe and they are excellent (also very funny)

ursula I have one the opposite, hates men. Large, masculine presenting women she treats like any other female but hates small effeminate men only marginally less than the average man. She’d probably be lambasted as transphobic if a trans woman tried to ride her. I now have an image of a little Britain sketch with someone lay in a ditch screeching ‘but I’m a lady’ at her retreating arse.

jellyfrizz

Damn! You beat me to it!

...and don't forget the horses.

Clare Balding when she was on the radio said the next race was a hurdles for mares only. What's the difference, the presenter in the studio asked. Well, said Clare, the girl-horses don't have to jump quite so high to clear the fences.

The plain fact is that women don't win in the usual events against men, because those are sex-segregated so that women do not compete in the men's events. They'd never, ever qualify.

It amuses me greatly whenever someone (usually on Twitter, usually a bloke) says 'why don't they have mixed races by ability?' as if that's ever going to happen. The number of races they'd need to have - in each event - before any women qualified would extend all major championships by months.

The number of races they'd need to have - in each event - before any women qualified would extend all major championships by months.

Goodness yes. Even more so in strength events.

We were looking up the world shot putt record the other day for unrelated to this topic reasons.

It is 23.12m for men, 22.63m for women.

Which seems fairly close until you remember the men's shot putt weighs 16 pounds and the women's 8 1/2 pounds.

Climbing in the Olympics will be Male/female as separate competitions and I suspect most climbers would agree with that.

Women on the whole are technically better, with balance and flexibility and thought, because they need to overcome their physical disadvantages earlier which are primarily reach, fingers strength and upper body strength in general. Additionally when it comes to lead climbing, testosterone gives a huge head space advantage.

It is incredibly rare to find a route that I find easier than DH.

High altitude climbing and endurance type events might be more even.

Yoga? If you consider that a 'sport'.

Fencing and in particular epee. Women can absolutely dominate. There was also for history buffs out there a female duelist/ opera singer, and got in and won duels with men:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_d%27Aubigny

If longevity was a sport, women would hold all the medals!

Having been climbing for 3 decades plus now, I can second Midge's comments. Male strength confers a huge advantage. And yes, technically I'd guess the average female climber would have about 3 to 4 grades in hand compared to a male climber if you magically increased her strength-to-weight ratio; we have to develop impeccable technique and footwork to compensate for lack of muscular strength. The only instance of a woman pulling off a remarkable first was Lynn Hill freeing El Cap.

The last thread on this sort of thing, we had an ultra-marathoner on who cautioned against reading too much into recent successes on the part of women, pointing out that we might well be looking at artefacts of sample size. In a Diamond League athletics meet, you're bound to get "best of the best" in both sexes, but ultramarathons/extreme long distance cycle races are such niche events that it's possible, through a blip in statistics, to get a field with a bunch of good but not elite men, and the best woman in the world. At least that was her take on it. (For Olympic distances, the gap in running times is resolutely 10% from 100m right through to marathon; for strength based events it opens up to 30% or more).

Perhaps we need to get ‘not shitting on the rights of others’ introduced as an Olympic sport. Females would win hands down

ROFL

And to answer a PP, women don’t have an advantage in shooting sports. There is an issue of the weight of the gun (in many disciplines, the heavier gun, with better resistance to recoil is a big advantage) and Vagal fitness. Men can lower their heart rates more easily (another advantage) and their bodies have better resilience to short term intense stress, such as competing in a final.

To answer the question about jockeys, men have a higher muscle to bodyweight ratio, they also use oxygen more efficiently. Jockeys have to keep their weight down, so this does give men an advantage as jockeys, and also as deep sea divers.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203204451.htm

www.foxnews.com/health/women-may-require-more-oxygen-uptake-than-men-for-same-fitness-task

In racing sailing dinghy events women can, and do, beat men especially in lighter weather conditions.
Most club-level racing is mixed. I have won trophies crewing my husband and women can often do well in single-handed boats against men.
It's also one of the few sports where age is no barrier to success.

Ginny Leng gave Ian Stark the ride on the legendary Murphy Himself

HRH Princess Anne gave the ride on Columbus to Captain Mark Phillips

Mary King lost the ride on Chilli Morning to William Fox-Pitt and King Joules to Oliver Townend

It’s interesting that even in a relatively equal sport, there is still a level of strength needed for some horses. I know a woman who sold a beloved hunter because, although he was brilliant at his job, she was exhausted trying to hold him all day. He went on to a hunting family and was ridden by a man with no problems...

However very few top level horses are unsuitable for men to ride. The very tall William Fox-Pitt rode the very petite Tamarillo to great success and likewise Mark Todd and Charisma.

Being short and squat I am very jealous about how they manage to make their height work on smaller horses, whereas I look ridiculous on anything over 15.2hh!

There is an argument that women are lighter which is an advantage that makes up for their lack of strength but it is pretty marginal.

I think it depends on the individual horse. I’ve known a few who are ‘a man’s ride’ and a few who seem to hate men (probably due to previous rough treatment by them)

If the equestrian sports are as equal as their mixed sex status suggests then one must question why there are so very few women at the top level (especially in show jumping) when they so vastly out number men at grassroots levels.

I think it’s due to culture rather than skill? Eventing and dressage seem fairly equal, whereas jumping and racing are dominated by men. Vaulting seems mostly female. Driving, showing and western sports (barrel racing etc) also seem fairly equal

TheInebriati

That’s interesting, thanks

Pole dancing. We just do it better.

Jumping (to conclusions)
....my DH’s contribution.