Spinster, should it be women only or women and allies?

[sueanddumplings]

I noticed that there's a screen grab doing the rounds on social media of Debbie Hayton being given a frosty reception after joining because she is 'not a woman'. Do others think the site should be women only or women and allies?

Allies who genuinely want to listen and learn from our experience and ideas are welcome.
People can draw their own conclusions as to whether D Hayton falls into that camp.

I've not joined yet as i want to wait and see what its like first. If its anonymous you wont know who people are anyway. If people break the rules deal with them. If people get a frosty reception, thats life, as long as rules are not broken.

It is supposed to be a womwns forum so anyone who is not female should expect to be treated differently. Irl we are treated as second class citizens so quite frefreshing if its the other way round for once.

I'm not personally very interested in a women only site.

I just want somewhere that allows me to use reality based language and speak my opinions honestly.

I've not logged on to Spinster yet partly because I'm waiting to see where the wind blows on that front, but also because it seems a bit too Twitter like in format for my taste.

The issue with Hayton joining on Day One, Phase One was because registrations were limited so as not to overload the system. [Capping registrations is still in progress, as far as I know.] Hayton and a couple of other men were asked to leave because they were taking places from women who were queuing up to register. [Some men just can't help themselves and must barge in.]

Spinster is an alternative space to Twitter that does not ban feminists. Men can join. They do not have to be "allies". All users are bound by strict rules which are very women-centric.

spinster.xyz/about

Hayton and others can join, of course, but maybe they could exercise a little restraint and show some respect for women and make space for them to register.

I think restricting it only to people who 'think the right way' is a slippery slope and is never going to end well.
Let allies join. And the wokesters. It'll be good for them to try #nodebate somewhere that women can actually speak freely.

Agree SheWhoMustBeSilent

Perfectly put.

That makes sense SheWhoMustBeSilent

Can you post links on Twitter to Spinster the way you can post links to Facebook and Reddit on Twitter?

I don’t want GC opinion vanishing from Twitter entirely, but when a thread gets ‘controversial’ enough that it looks like it might get a user banned (eg ‘transwomen are men’) I’d like to see ‘Let’s continue this discussion outside’ with a link to Spinster.

I haven’t looked at Spinster. I don’t know anything about the format.

As to whether allies should be allowed to post, well I assumed it’s called ‘Spinster’ for a reason. I’d prefer even the likes of glinner and James Kirkup to leave it to women.

Should be open to all (including TRAs) - nothing worse than an echo chamber.

What is important is that those moderating and controlling the site are GC.

the same applies to sold-out events for women's rights, the appropriate thing would be for the non-women to give up their seats for women.

Exactly so, Spartacus. But, as I say, some men must always barge themselves in. They seem to be so patriarchal that they cannot possibly accommodate the notion that a meeting event can be occupied only by women. They must see and hear what we do. [Power and control.]

Can you post links on Twitter to Spinster the way you can post links to Facebook and Reddit on Twitter?

Yes

Suffragettes or suffergists, didn't they disagree about allies and things like that?

I’m happy for men to join. But once the platform is stable. There are limited registrations right now, men shouldn’t be at the front of the queue.

Should be open to all (including TRAs) - nothing worse than an echo chamber.

It is ... but TRAs might be frustrated by the rules. After one warning, if that warning is ignored they are gone.

According to the admin person, 'space' is a non-issue. They had some technical problems they needed to sort out so paused registrations for a while (and have done so subsequently for the same reason). Everyone is welcome provided they abide by the rules. And the site techie is a bloke.

Personally I'd hate it if we went down the separatist route. We are so up against it and desperately need our male allies. The site centres women and our concerns/views. That's good enough for me.

Having never used Twitter I find it hard to understand what to do. Would prefer actual women only

The site centres women and our concerns/views. That's good enough for me.

I agree.

And, use of the slur that is T**F is banned.

You can share links to it — this should go to a post by Megan Murphy:

spinster.xyz/@meghanmurphy/posts/102623260975772449

(OK, scratch that: you can't post links on MN because it puts asterisks around the @-name. Try this indirect link instead is.gd/NEW3O7 )

Spinster is part of a much larger network (the "Fediverse") of such sites, so has both local users commenting and access to follow people on other sites. The format is similar to Twitter, but more localised because it's easier to view and follow Spinster users in particular.

Most importantly, the operators of Spinster won't throw people off for making gender-critical or women-centred posts; although they do still have rules of conduct.

I think it should be what its founders want it to be:

Spinster is a woman-centric website created to provide a platform for feminist dialogue.

And, as they say, open to men - however they identify - provided they can manage to be respectful towards women.

That said, I looked - and still look - askance at those men who couldn't even bring themselves to wait a few days or a few weeks before barging in. We all know the presence of men affects dynamics and it showed a spectacular lack of self-awareness not to self-exclude until the women had settled in and created the ambience they wanted.

The forming, storming, norming, and performing process for that site should belong to women. I've taken note of those men who were blind to that and I will remember.

I've enjoyed my first days on Spinster immensely and I've found loads of new and wonderful women, with some of whom I share particular interests (eg social class). I might have missed some of them if I'd been busy saying hello to blokes I like.

So for me, and me only: I'm determined to create an initially female only space and set of interactions there. All the men I come across - even the ones I like - are being muted/blocked. I will reassess at a later date when I've got things going how I want them and the ambience going how I want it and do some unblocking.

But for now and for me: woman only. Quite how following and interacting with a wide variety of women of different interests and views is creating an echo chamber is entirely beyond me. It sounds more like anti-feminism to assume it would be any such thing.

Allies are at (almost) as much risk of being banned from Twitter for GC posts as women are.

Aren't the Twitter bannings the primary motivation for Spinster? If you ban men, then women have a place to make GC posts without risking a ban, but men who stand up for women have nowhere to go. That doesn't seem like a great situation to create.

It wouldn’t be possible to make it a woman only site. You can’t know who is behind a username.

Are registrations still on hold, does anyone know? I haven’t had any confirmation email yet and it’s been a couple of days. I’m happy that they are taking time to check though...

@Ornery

Have a look in your Spam folder if you have not already done so.