"Mumsnet, of all places"

[FrauRogacki]

Came across this article published on overland, which is a progressive literary magazine based in Mellbourne. The author refers patronisingly to 'Mumsnet, of all places' as a hotbed of gender critical activity.

overland.org.au/2019/05/what-is-gender-critical-anyway-on-essentialism-and-transphobia

Better be careful, we are creeping out of our 'place' and actually fighting our oppression. They won't like it

Who could imagine that a bunch of women, mostly mothers, would have opinions about what a woman is? What is the world coming to!

Quick! Fetch the smelling salts. I feel all faint

Shhh don’t tell anyone, but because of MN I actually had irl GC chats in Melbourne with friends and family, and peaked a few.

I always find it odd when people are surprised that a website set up specifically for mothers would include vast swathes of posters who think biology matters.

I know! It's depressing that this is a supposedly progressive journal and it's quite prepared to diminish women as 'mums'. The argument is incoherent, as are the comments.

Ahhh girldownunder you can't do that in MELBOURNE!!! When are some of the so called feminist commentators down there going to actually say something - they are all silent, even when Cricket Australia just quietly kills women's cricket.

Yeh what other group would know better firsthand that it is our biology not our outfits that sets us at a disadvantage and/ir puts our safety at risk.

What, Mums actually care about child safeguarding?? Whatever next.

Melbourne is very woke, lots of beards about. I took a huge risk I tell ya, who knows who overheard. I was risking the milk for my coffee being scalded by the barista

Unfortunately I don’t live in Melbourne else I’d maybe try more, but where I do live isn’t much better.

You are very brave girldownunder

How dare we group together and discuss topics that concern our safety and our children’s future. Disgusting behaviour.

On Mumsnet of all places! Surely those silly mummies should understand that women’s brains dribble out of our ears once we reproduce, leaving us fit for little more than wittering about nappies and making life nicer for men! Why on earth would these vapid semi-people have views about feminism, isn’t there a baby group they should be trundling along to?

Increasingly I think this stuff should be covered in pregnancy books. “Congratulations! Things to watch out for now you’re going to be a mum:

• morning sickness;
• feet swelling;
• sudden revelation that deeply-ingrained sexism means half the world now regard you as pointless and unimportant;
• also you’re not just your children’s mummy, you are now everybody’s mummy, and therefore it is fine for male-led movements to direct 90% of their scorn at you for not selflessly and quietly helping them more as is the job of mothers. God, MUM.”

As a proud melbournian, I take a tiny amount of heart from the fact the author is a New Zealander.

Now off to offer my thoughts to the publisher...

It is our biology not our outfits that sets us at a disadvantage and puts our safety at risk

Best summary of this whole sorry mess I have seen. Totally stealing that one!* *

thank you 53rd way. That was my reaction. And from a woman as well.

It reminds me of a professional event i went to recently and said hello to some little pipsqueak i'd met at another professional event and she said 'Oh you're the MUM."

Damn straight I'm the Mum.

Please feel free to post it on the site - I can't get past the moderator but others may have more luck.

Ewwww mums! With their icky vaginas and gross boobs being all booby and breastfeeding AT people. We’re all just mums! With our stupid mummy brains. How I managed to get through my degree and senior management role I’ll never know

I am so bloody tired of reading about “transphobia”. It’s not. We really don’t care what you wear, what you call yourself or who you have sex with as long as they’re a consenting adult. I simply do not give one fuck. But don’t fucking tell us we shouldn’t care when safeguarding is being eroded, women’s rights are at risk and healthy children are being experimented on, sterilised and mutilated. That, friends, is where I give a great many fucks, a whole field in fact, and while there are still terrible, dangerous people pushing that agenda I can tell you that I will continue to give a fuck, as will all the other brilliant women here and elsewhere.

Well this is relevant because today in the state of Victoria the initial stages were passed to allow a trans person to change the sex on their birth certificate with just the say so of someone who’s known them for a year. Worth reading the Guardian article on it to emphasise how they can’t get the words sex and gender right, still:

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/15/bill-to-allow-transgender-people-change-birth-certificate-without-surgery-clears-first-hurdle-in-victoria

By UK stats, 80% of women become mothers by the age of 45. How on Earth can other women hold 80% of their sex in contempt and not realise their misogyny in doing so?

Just read the article the OP linked to. The writer has completely misunderstood what gender critical feminists are arguing for by saying they adhere to binary gender essentialism, when in fact the opposite is true.

But yes, nice to see they describe us all as being radicalised on mumsnet. That makes me smile.

It’s a bit iscouraging that a supposedly intellectual journal like Overland can publish an essay which profoundly misunderstands the very thing it’s critiquing.

What makes TERF ideology reactionary rather than radical is its dedication to binary gender essentialism. The concept of gender essentialism is practically timeless, and reaction to it is key to understanding why feminist theory exists in the first place. Gender essentialism is the idea that there is an innate, immutable ‘womanness’ or ‘manness’ which expresses itself in what we consider ‘femininity’ or ‘masculinity’. It posits, for example, that women as a group are naturally more caring and empathetic and men as a group are more aggressive and clever, and – crucially – that these gendered qualities exist inherently, without societal influence. Another key aspect of essentialism is that it is often, but not always, tied to bodies and ‘biology’. So, because a lot of women give birth, gender essentialism associates childcare with women because they are biologically ‘destined’ for it.

Radical feminism, (or, as the unfortunate author has it, “even Mumsnet”), surely isn’t arguing “gender essentialism”, but the material reality of biological sex?

Radical feminism is opposed to the idea that there is some more essential gender identity, other than individual personality shaped by socialisation.

I’m really embarrassed for Danielle Moreau, both for her lack of deep reading and her condescension.

Yes, if you read the article, the author appears to think that GC women think that
"Gender essentialism is the idea that there is an innate, immutable ‘womanness’ or ‘manness’ which expresses itself in what we consider ‘femininity’ or ‘masculinity’. It posits, for example, that women as a group are naturally more caring and empathetic and men as a group are more aggressive and clever, and – crucially – that these gendered qualities exist inherently, without societal influence. "

Author "Danielle" needs to do a bit more reading me-thinks..

Ooops cross post

MELBOURNE!!! When are some of the so called feminist commentators down there going to actually say something - they are all silent, even when Cricket Australia just quietly kills women's cricket.

Moira Rayner spoke out, as did Liberal Frontbencher Louise Staley. And others. The Victorian Women’s Guild is a new organisation speaking for women’s rights. Their event from last Thursday is available on their FB page and YouTube.

Apparently Peter Singer attended - according to protestors he was not on the side of wokeness.

DuchessDumbarton.

Snap.