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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Caroline Lucas calls for an all-women cabinet

113 replies

Gone2far · 12/08/2019 08:41

link
I think she's lost the plot and that an all-women cabinet would have no special powers. Why are women supposed to be innately better at governing than men?

OP posts:
BrainFart · 12/08/2019 15:20

As much as this has been annoying me today, I can actually sort-of-see why she sent it to Emily Thornberry rather than Diane Abbott, as the rank of Foreign Minister seems to supercede that of Home Minister...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_rank

Although I would say that Abbott is certainly perceived to be the higher-ranking member in terms of "visibility" and proximity to the Labour leader.

ThePurported · 12/08/2019 15:23

What I'm trying to say is that the fantasy cab is too white, but not for the reasons it's being criticised for.

I agree, but I don't think this was about picking women because of their negotiating ability.
It's obvious that Lucas picked ten women whose views on Brexit align with hers.

I personally don't have a problem with that if she believes that it could lead to some good ideas, but dressing it up as 'female cooperation' is disingenuous and a fairly stupid move, because she is now unable to explain why Diane Abbott, a senior female Labour member, isn't one of her "10 women who represent the nations of the UK and the leadership of the relevant political parties/groupings", but Yvette Cooper is.

Micaela64 · 12/08/2019 15:36

Is she a mole working for the Tories? What a gift to Boris to hand him this distraction that makes the Remain class look like they've completely lost the plot.

donquixotedelamancha · 12/08/2019 16:19

Identify a terrible, horrendous political situation. Propose a completely batshit stupid remedy.

I'm pretty sure that's the green party motto. The last one was for zero carbon emissions (not nett) by next year or some such. It would have required everyone to stop respiring.

The Challenor debacle was just one sign amongst many that the Greens are more interested in student politics than achieving anything.

RoyalCorgi · 12/08/2019 16:24

How did he convince those people in the PCP, then the Tory party as a whole, that he was the best bet ? He must have fairly considerable powers of something...

He clearly has a good deal of personal charm. Everyone says that about him, including Purnell. (Incidentally, Purnell has a grudge against him because he treated her badly - you seem to be implying that she only claims he treated her badly because she has a grudge against him, which is back to front.)

But having personal charm is not at all the same thing as being good at co-operating, let alone being good at negotiating, which is a very particular skill. Theresa May was apparently poor at both, yet became prime minister. (And she seemed to lack personal charm as well, so that particular ascent to success is something of a mystery.)

ArthursSlave · 12/08/2019 16:27

Well this is the woman who is calling for the "peoples vote" (fine), but then went on record as saying that if it went to "leave" again, she would still not accept the result.

Whatever you feel about Brexit, I think this is an appalling view of democracy.

merrymouse · 12/08/2019 17:43

"In my experience, women tend to be less tribal, they tend to find it easier to establish trust more quickly,"

So will she be inviting Priti Patel and Andrea Leadsom into the cabinet?

She could always invite Anne Widdecombe and Annunziata Rees Mogg to be special advisors.

All girls together right? with their special wimminz skills?

merrymouse · 12/08/2019 18:03

Everything I've read about Boris Johnson from former colleagues suggests precisely that.

Agree - most political commentators seem to agree that Johnson is not well liked by his fellow MPs. He doesn't do the work and then steals the lime light. He is still fundamentally a newspaper columnist, not a working MP. His power is based on his Telegraph columns, not his support in the house.

MockerstheFeManist · 12/08/2019 18:20

Am getting a bit of a Floaters earworm:

Cancer, and my name is Caroline. And I like a cabinet that's All Woman...

RoyalCorgi · 12/08/2019 18:20

She could always invite Anne Widdecombe and Annunziata Rees Mogg to be special advisors.

LOL. I think one thing she doesn't take into account is that, even if we accept that women in general tend to behave more co-operatively (which I think is probably true, with caveats), the kind of women who go into politics aren't representative of women in general. Can you imagine trying to collaborate with Arlene Foster on something? Reaching a compromise? No, me neither.

AllNaturalWoman · 12/08/2019 18:53

I thought it was embarrassing patronising nonsense from someone who wanted to be the centre of attention. And particular nonsense from someone who claims being a woman's is a feeling not a biological reality.

And I do think not including Diane Abbott shows at best unconscious racism.

Nothing but nothing would possess me to vote for Lucas

pennypineapple · 12/08/2019 18:57

I think it's the opposite of progressive to argue women will behave in a certain way just because they are women.

I'm really disappointed in Caroline Lucas, I used to have a lot of respect for her.

JellyfishAndShells · 12/08/2019 19:08

I have rarely seen such a unifying statement - quite something to achieve condemnation from every angle and political perspective. Not quite what she had in mind when she floated this sexist nonsense.

What sprang to mind with me was the frequent refrain of my youth ‘ ‘“what we need to stop war is to have a woman running things “ Then we had Margaret Thatcher......

MockerstheFeManist · 12/08/2019 19:11

...Or Mrs Gandhi, Eva Peron, Golda Meir etc.

merrymouse · 12/08/2019 19:29

Not quite what she had in mind when she floated this sexist nonsense.

It's all nonsense anyway. I don't think she honestly believes that Kenneth Clarke and Dominc Grieve are about to unite behind a Green Party PM. It's all just a PR stunt.

stumbledin · 12/08/2019 19:31

I am not saying I think Caroline Lucas is comparable to this but there is extensive research that when looking for a unified solution, particularly in areas of strife women are far better able to suceed and put forward proposal that reflect real lives.

Just google women peace makers.

And look at the number of economists who said we wouldn't have had the financial crash is women had been running the big banks.

The problem here is that everyone is seeing it through the lens of UK party politics.

And just reeling off lists of names of hardline women misses the point.

It is about women who will not put party before agreeing a solution.

But of course to have got a position in UK politics probably means you have been indoctrinated into working on the basis of party loyalties, in the same way that had more women been running big banks they would probably have done so by enacting the (aggressive, macho) culture of banking.

However, were the Queen to set up a special counsel of all women advisors (not party aligned) on the basis that politicians (as she has reportedly said) have not managed to follow through on the ADVISORY referendum results, that might be the only way out.

Better this constitutional crisis than Boris Johnson projecting fantasies dreampt up by his Fleet Street cronies who think the general public are all stupid and easily tricked by drum thumping and waving the union jack, to use calling an election to let a no deal happen by default.

merrymouse · 12/08/2019 19:43

However, were the Queen to set up a special counsel of all women advisors (not party aligned) on the basis that politicians (as she has reportedly said) have not managed to follow through on the ADVISORY referendum results, that might be the only way out.

The Queen would not do that because it's not enough to show that Boris Johnson isn't doing a good job, or even that he has lost a vote of no confidence. Somebody else, male or female, has to demonstrate that they have the support of the house, otherwise we are stuck with Johnson till the next election.

BrainFart · 12/08/2019 19:49

So now we've gone from a women-only cabinet to a non-elected women-only body to override the HoP and the Brexit vote, the checks and balances on whose decisions would be, what exactly ? As a Brit living in the EU, I would literally rather see a catastrophic Brexit, democratically-applied, than this oestrogen-soaked Soviet secret commission nightmare you conjured as being the possibly the only way out.

Boy, I don't particularly enjoy hyperbole. That escalated quickly...Confused

TheBigBallOfOil · 12/08/2019 19:53

Confused. What wars was mrs thatcher responsible for?
Ps if you say the falklands I will call you a massive tit. Don’t say I don’t give fair warning.

BrainFart · 12/08/2019 19:53

Also, people arent looking at it through the lens of UK party politics, they are looking at it through the lens of "Holy fuck, a leading politican has just suggested in 2019 that political power should be divvied out based on sex, and refused to those of a certain sex."

She did apologise for not included BAME women though, because that is WRONG . Excluding men is still perfectly a-ok though.

Mammajay · 12/08/2019 20:01

Kwasi Kwarteng,Dominic Grieve, Kier Starker, Heseltine, there are lots of really good men MPs. There are as many crap women MPs as men . I was with Caroline Lucas till she added the only women bit ....so stupid.

merrymouse · 12/08/2019 20:03

It is about women who will not put party before agreeing a solution.

And which MPs would those be?

If they exist wouldn't they have made themselves known by now? This has been going on for over 3 years.

nettie434 · 12/08/2019 20:04

This is a political strategy by Lucas, nothing more, to apply pressure to labour who refuse to consider any option other than Corbyn as PM.

I used to admire Caroline Lucas prior to the Challenor debacle. There is no point in saying that women will do this better if at the same time your definition of women is meaningless.

Agree with dolorsit, this is an attempt to split the Labour vote. I recognise that she has to do what's best for the Greens but I don't think she can pretend that this is what is best for the country.

Freespeecher · 12/08/2019 20:07

Cobynistas obviously didn't like it and their outwoking her has holed this whole enterprise below the waterline before it even got off the slipway.

Still, it meant the sole Green MP was the lead story on the Graun website for a while so there's that.

BrainFart · 12/08/2019 20:32

To those of you who are taking a sanguine "just strategy, nothing to see here" approach, do/did you maintain the same sang froid when Boris Johnson or JRM suggest proroguing parliament, or UKIP or The Brexit Party make whatever horrific dog-whistle policy suggestion as "just a strategy" ?

"The Tories are cleaving right to ward off UKIP, say they're going to hold an EU referendum"

"Nothing to see here, just a strategy"

"Oh, bum... look where that strategy led us"