India Willoughby identifying as a cis woman

[Nousernameforme]

And the Tra's are not liking it. Surely if you say you are a cis woman then you totally are one #nodebate.
Or is Cis somehow exempt from being able to identify in or out of.

Transsexuals claiming cis is brilliant. Let the whole house of cards come tumbling down.

This movement was always going to eat itself and sooner the better.

I actually think it's a great idea to have two categories of transwomen. Those who've had full surgery and those who haven't.

We also have the Woke females who also identify with their own oppression and refer to themselves as cis women. So they can all be one group where they want to be.

I'll just stick with woman.

I'm a female, don't need to identify as one, so off you pop IW and call yourself a cis woman if that helps you. Trans/cis/whatever, ultimately none of them mean woman.

IW seems to be using the term 'cis woman' to mean what we used to call 'transsexual'. That's a no-no word now, apparently - and the world is poorer for it, because it was useful. And TSW have been in for a barrowload of hate because of course you don't need to undergo surgery etc to become a woman, or to affirm your identity as a woman (because of course you've always been a woman since you stopped being a girl.)

The individual who calls itself India is welcome to the term cis. I'm not a cis anything, I and all the other adult humans who were born with vaginas are called "women".

The use of 'cis' by any being, be they a man, a skunk or a tadpole, has zero effect upon my life or that of any other woman.

[Sigh]
Yes. It's batshit. I loathe the monicker 'cis', completely unnecessary.
I don't want to be rude to IW, despite thinking some of her claims are batshit. I hope we are still living in a society capable of making that distinction between respect for a person and disrespect for their ideology.

BUT
It's not enough to fold your arms and say 'Nonsense!' The nonsense may be self-evident to you and me, but it isn't self-evident to everyone.

Great!

Post op transexuals can call themselves names like 'cis', women remain women, and non-dysphoric transgender males can call themselves - idk - cross dressing men All sorted, really.

I think post operative transsexuals are probably the majority of the number of truly "cis" people out there. "Cis" meaning that your body shape matches your inner sense of the gender stereotypes that apply to you. Given that most sensible people don't even want or attempt to fit gender stereotypes, the only people who are cis at all will be the tiny number of non trans people who don't feel that way and actively want to be a walking stereotype (women who actively perform "womanhood" in their presentation and interests, and men who likewise perform manhood with nothing about them breaking the stereotypes but each trying to perfectly model the culturally correct character for their birth sex) and the people who have instead kept their personality as it is but have surgically altered their bodies to match the stereotypes they wish to conform to.

The rest of us, who don't see any link between body shape and personality/preferences are clearly not cis.

From this article:

In one awful moment, I realized that this wasn’t about the liberation of a sexual minority or about the peace and safety of societal misfits — it was men finding another way to subjugate and abuse women, by erasing them.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3658804-Such-a-good-article-on-one-womans-journey-to-becoming-gender-critical

What answer do you want BluebonicPlague?

It really is this simple: the words woman and girl apply to biologically female humans, That's all.

There are no other types of women.

I’m v happy to offload the word

Solves some problems all round

Call me ignorant but I thought the whole point of the term cis was to identify those with xx chromosomes living as women (as opposed to trans/non binary xx chromosome holders or xy chromosome holders. How about xx women are just Women!

She can have cis and womxn too while she’s at it.

IW believes that women who don't shave their legs are dirty.

She can have cis and the rest of us can just get on with being women, with legs shaven /unshaven as we chose. Even the most glamorous externally patriarchy compliant women can delight in a good fart/ weild a spanner / take an interest in astronomy (insert masculine stereotype). The vast vast majority of women are not 2d stereotypes.

IW is welcome to cis, and her revulsion at women who do not adhere to it.

Basically we are not allowed to be called anything that separates us as a group. We are inconvenient and best to pretend we don’t exist.

Yes that is what it is about.

Men have always seen women as very different and put all sorts of social (and sometimes literal) rules in place about our looks, behaviour, how we are supposed to think etc. Many many men, if you dog a little, do see women and girls in terms of stereotypes, rather than people.

The stereotypes are then seen as desirable to some males. As these are all women are, if you adopt them, you are a woman.

Women who don't conform to stereotypes have always been problematic to men as a group, as it shows we are people, and that is not what we are supposed to be.

So denaming us feels like quite a natural thing to do.

Dig a little 😁

Let them have 'ciswoman'.
I am a woman.

I am also Spartacus.

I actually think it's a great idea to have two categories of transwomen. Those who've had full surgery and those who haven't.

Oooh, it'd be like the old days, transsexuals and transvestites.

'Cis' is only useful in terms of knowing which people to avoid (anyone who uses it).

Things, you can manipulate language as much as you want with these labels but people will still know what you are and find a way to describe that which is understood.
The language inside the bubble may be used in a different way to outside of it.

It is not surprising that IW wants to distance herself from the JYs and TRAs, and I do think a distinction between pre and post op could be useful. When all this started I was an ally in that I figured that someone like IW who would go to such lengths - surgery, medication etc - must have been in a great deal of emotional pain beforehand, and deserved to be treated with respect. Since then the TRAs have taken over the narrative and it has become a horrendous mess not only, it seems, for women, but also for trans women like IW. Coupled with all the fetish horror on display at Pride (particularly the MAP) it is becoming clearer that the TWAW concept has opened the door to violent and predatory men. Which is what we, as GC feminists have been warning everybody about.

So, on balance, I think the more IW speaks out, the better.

I don't know that IW has really thought this out in any rational way or with a real agenda. But I do wonder when people are going to realise that all this manipulation of language is largely about creating in and out groups with jargon, and controlling narratives. And that it is a no-win situation for everyone in the long term.

Only women are women. The rest are men. A few are intersex. End of. Gender is extreme fuckwittery

Cis means that one identifies with the gender assigned at birth. I wasn't assigned a gender, no-one was. Cis is extreme fuckwittery

India can call themselves a Cis woman and I’ll stick with being a woman.